The 5 Points of Calvinism

[Patrick]

Corporate election not individual


While Calvinists typically think Romans 9 teaches unconditional individual election, many scholars now think Paul rather had corporate election in mind. Corporate election was the view of the Old Testament and Second Temple Judaism; Paul and the rest of the New Testament only used corporate language when speaking explicitly of election unto salvation; and the sociohistorical context of Paul and the early Church was collectivist. Speaking of Rom 9:10–13 and corporate election, distinguished Calvinist scholar Douglas Moo conceded that corporate election is what one would expect Paul to have in mind, “an expectation,” he pointed out, “that seems to be confirmed by the OT texts that Paul quotes.” But it is important to specify the nature of the corporate election in view, because various conceptions of it have been posited by scholars as Paul’s view in Romans 9.

The best view of corporate election recognizes that the election of God’s people in the Old Testament was a consequence of the choice of an individual who represented the group, the corporate head and representative. In other words, the group was elected in the corporate head, as a consequence of its association with this corporate representative


Brian J. Abasciano, “Romans 9 and Calvinism,” in Calvinism: A Biblical and Theological Critique

 

[civic]

Unsupported

Yep that’s Calvinism unsupported with scripture all based on presuppositions.

 

[civic]

Corporate election not individual


While Calvinists typically think Romans 9 teaches unconditional individual election, many scholars now think Paul rather had corporate election in mind. Corporate election was the view of the Old Testament and Second Temple Judaism; Paul and the rest of the New Testament only used corporate language when speaking explicitly of election unto salvation; and the sociohistorical context of Paul and the early Church was collectivist. Speaking of Rom 9:10–13 and corporate election, distinguished Calvinist scholar Douglas Moo conceded that corporate election is what one would expect Paul to have in mind, “an expectation,” he pointed out, “that seems to be confirmed by the OT texts that Paul quotes.” But it is important to specify the nature of the corporate election in view, because various conceptions of it have been posited by scholars as Paul’s view in Romans 9.

The best view of corporate election recognizes that the election of God’s people in the Old Testament was a consequence of the choice of an individual who represented the group, the corporate head and representative. In other words, the group was elected in the corporate head, as a consequence of its association with this corporate representative


Brian J. Abasciano, “Romans 9 and Calvinism,” in Calvinism: A Biblical and Theological Critique

Yep

 

[Presby02]

Yep that’s Calvinism unsupported with scripture all based on presuppositions.

I could say the same about you. It's so easy. Except I would be right. Lol

 

[Presby02]

Corporate election not individual


While Calvinists typically think Romans 9 teaches unconditional individual election, many scholars now think Paul rather had corporate election in mind. Corporate election was the view of the Old Testament and Second Temple Judaism; Paul and the rest of the New Testament only used corporate language when speaking explicitly of election unto salvation; and the sociohistorical context of Paul and the early Church was collectivist. Speaking of Rom 9:10–13 and corporate election, distinguished Calvinist scholar Douglas Moo conceded that corporate election is what one would expect Paul to have in mind, “an expectation,” he pointed out, “that seems to be confirmed by the OT texts that Paul quotes.” But it is important to specify the nature of the corporate election in view, because various conceptions of it have been posited by scholars as Paul’s view in Romans 9.

The best view of corporate election recognizes that the election of God’s people in the Old Testament was a consequence of the choice of an individual who represented the group, the corporate head and representative. In other words, the group was elected in the corporate head, as a consequence of its association with this corporate representative


Brian J. Abasciano, “Romans 9 and Calvinism,” in Calvinism: A Biblical and Theological Critique

Except you don't elect yourself. God does the electing. You don't become elect.

 

[charismaticlady]

Is your eternal destiny predestined from all eternity given the number of the elect cannot change?

Do you base this statement on Romans 11:25b "that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." Do you believe that you have been numbered? What if Jesus tells you "I never knew you"? How do you know if you are numbered or not? Those who Jesus told I never knew you were surprised to find they weren't. Matthew 7:21-23

 

[civic]

Do you base this statement on Romans 11:25b "that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." Do you believe that you have been numbered? What if Jesus tells you "I never knew you"? How do you know if you are numbered or not? Those who Jesus told I never knew you were surprised to find they weren't. Matthew 7:21-23

Ditto

 

[Presby02]

Do you base this statement on Romans 11:25b "that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." Do you believe that you have been numbered? What if Jesus tells you "I never knew you"? How do you know if you are numbered or not? Those who Jesus told I never knew you were surprised to find they weren't. Matthew 7:21-23

I won't know for certain until the end. Those who persevere.

 

[charismaticlady]

I won't know for certain until the end. Those who persevere.

Interesting. So you are not a Calvinist who believes in once saved always saved? How many of the letters in TULIP do you believe in if not all? What else do you not believe in.

 

[civic]

Interesting. So you are not a Calvinist who believes in once saved always saved? How many of the letters in TULIP do you believe in if not all? What else do you not believe in.

You caught that too lol

 

[Presby02]

Interesting. So you are not a Calvinist who believes in once saved always saved? How many of the letters in TULIP do you believe in if not all? What else do you not believe in.

I believe in perseverance of the saints.

 

[Patrick]

Except you don't elect yourself. God does the electing. You don't become elect.

You do become elect when you accept Christ and abide in him. When you become a member of his church.

The election of humans occurs only in union with Jesus Christ. Jesus himself is first of all the elect of God. Concerning Jesus, God states, “Here is my servant whom I have chosen”. Christ, as the elect, is the foundation of our election. Only in union with Christ do we become members of the elect . No one is elect apart from union with Christ through faith.

Election is “in him…through his blood”. God purposed before creation to form a people through Christ’s redemptive death on the cross. Thus election is grounded on Christ’s sacrificial death to save us from our sins through the form of corporate election.

Election in Christ is primarily corporate, an election of a people. The elect are called “the body of Christ”, “my church”, “a people belonging to God", and the “bride” of Christ. Therefore, election is corporate and embraces individual persons only as they identify and associate themselves with the body of Christ, the true church.

 

[Presby02]

You do become elect when you accept Christ and abide in him. When you become a member of his church.

The election of humans occurs only in union with Jesus Christ. Jesus himself is first of all the elect of God. Concerning Jesus, God states, “Here is my servant whom I have chosen”. Christ, as the elect, is the foundation of our election. Only in union with Christ do we become members of the elect . No one is elect apart from union with Christ through faith.

Election is “in him…through his blood”. God purposed before creation to form a people through Christ’s redemptive death on the cross. Thus election is grounded on Christ’s sacrificial death to save us from our sins through the form of corporate election.

Election in Christ is primarily corporate, an election of a people. The elect are called “the body of Christ”, “my church”, “a people belonging to God", and the “bride” of Christ. Therefore, election is corporate and embraces individual persons only as they identify and associate themselves with the body of Christ, the true church.

No you don't. You become elect when you were chosen by God since He does the electing.

You don't choose to become elect. Nowhere are we implored to become elect.

Christ came to save "His people". His sheep who hear His voice. His church, His bride.

 

[Gatekeeper]

You do become elect when you accept Christ and abide in him. When you become a member of his church.

The election of humans occurs only in union with Jesus Christ. Jesus himself is first of all the elect of God. Concerning Jesus, God states, “Here is my servant whom I have chosen”. Christ, as the elect, is the foundation of our election. Only in union with Christ do we become members of the elect . No one is elect apart from union with Christ through faith.

Election is “in him…through his blood”. God purposed before creation to form a people through Christ’s redemptive death on the cross. Thus election is grounded on Christ’s sacrificial death to save us from our sins through the form of corporate election.

Election in Christ is primarily corporate, an election of a people. The elect are called “the body of Christ”, “my church”, “a people belonging to God", and the “bride” of Christ. Therefore, election is corporate and embraces individual persons only as they identify and associate themselves with the body of Christ, the true church.

Excellent way of looking at election. I like how Dr. Leighton Flowers Explains it.

Concerning election and predestination, we might use the analogy of a great ship on its way to heaven. The ship (the church) is chosen by God to be his very own vessel. Christ is the Captain and Pilot of this ship. All who desire to be a part of this elect ship and its Captain can do so through a living faith in Christ, by which they come on board the ship… Election is always only in union with the Captain and his ship. Predestination tells us about the ship’s destination and what God has prepared for those “mark in Him by faith”. God invites everyone to come aboard the elect ship through faith in Jesus Christ. Soteriology101

 

[Gatekeeper]

No you don't. You become elect when you were chosen by God since He does the electing.

You don't choose to become elect. Nowhere are we implored to become elect.

Christ came to save "His people". His sheep who hear His voice. His church, His bride.

That would be corporate election those that join the church that choose Christ.

 

[Gatekeeper]

This simplifies it.

The Three Choices of God: Divine Election made simple

The 3 Choices of God according to Jesus The story that Jesus tells about The Wedding Feast has probably been the most helpful in bringing clarity to the complex issue of divine elect…

soteriology101.com

 

[civic]

That would be corporate election those that join the church that choose Christ.

Yes corporate is the biblical model.

 

[charismaticlady]

I believe in perseverance of the saints.

Isn't that OSAS?

 

[civic]

Isn't that OSAS?

Let’s see him explain it in his own words @Presby02

 

[atpollard]

Isn't that OSAS?

Col 3:3-4 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

• I believe that I WILL also appear with Him in glory, like scripture promised.

Phil 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

• I believe that God will complete the work He began.

2Tim 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

• I believe that the Lord will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom.

1Pet 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

• I believe that my inheritance IS imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for me.
• I believe that I am being guarded by God's power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed.

Jn 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

• I believe that Jesus will lose NONE of His sheep.
• I believe EVERYONE who looks and believes, Jesus WILL raise up.

Jn 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

• I believe that there will be no snatching out of hands.

Rom 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

• I believe the NOTHING will separate.

Eph 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

• I believe we ARE sealed with a promise that will not be broken.

I am a little fuzzy on the details of OSAS.
Is THAT OSAS or not?