The 5 Points of Calvinism

[atpollard]

I see the different definitions of "grace" as the main cause of the difference in how we see ourselves. We either believe we are always a sinner, or a victorious child of God.

I do not think that “victorious child of God” is a definition that any dictionary or lexicon will give for the word “grace” or ant Hebrew or Greek word translated as “grace”. So while we ARE “victorious children of God” that is not the meaning of the word.

 

[atpollard]

1 John 3:4-9
"4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

How does a scripture passage that does not even contain the word “grace” serve as the defining text for “grace”?

I cannot help but feel like you have moved the goal posts.

 

[charismaticlady]

How does a scripture passage that does not even contain the word “grace” serve as the defining text for “grace”?

I cannot help but feel like you have moved the goal posts.

LOL

We westerners read the eastern apostles writings with western eyes. Here is an eastern verse that when read with an eastern understanding shows that the common word "great" holds the parallel word that means the same thing. In this case grace is power.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

That is a lesson in Semitic writing styles of synonymous parallels.

 

[atpollard]

LOL

We westerners read the eastern apostles writings with western eyes. Here is an eastern verse that when read with an eastern understanding shows that the common word "great" holds the parallel word that means the same thing. In this case grace is power.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

That is a lesson in Semitic writing styles of synonymous parallels.

We "westerners" read context (and LUKE was a westerner, writing to westerners):

Act 4:31-35 [NASB]
31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and [began] to speak the word of God with boldness.

• "great power"

32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one [of them] claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them.

• "abundant (great) grace"

33 And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.

• The verse you focused on.

34 For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales 35 and lay them at the apostles' feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need.

• "abundant (great) grace"

"great/abundant" = [G3173] = μέγας mégas = literally "big"
"power" = [G1411] = δύναμις dýnamis = literally "force"
"grace" = [G5485] = χάρις cháris = literally "that which affords pleasure of delight"

They are not "synonymous parallels", rather Acts 4 describes BOTH the Power and the Grace which were present.
Frankly, as Acts 4 describes them, we (the 21st century church) have NEITHER (although both the POWER to speak boldly and the GRACE to love ONE ANOTHER in deed is no less available).

 

[charismaticlady]

We "westerners" read context (and LUKE was a westerner, writing to westerners):

Act 4:31-35 [NASB]
31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and [began] to speak the word of God with boldness.

• "great power"

32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one [of them] claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them.

• "abundant (great) grace"

33 And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all.

• The verse you focused on.

34 For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales 35 and lay them at the apostles' feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need.

• "abundant (great) grace"

"great/abundant" = [G3173] = μέγας mégas = literally "big"
"power" = [G1411] = δύναμις dýnamis = literally "force"
"grace" = [G5485] = χάρις cháris = literally "that which affords pleasure of delight"

They are not "synonymous parallels", rather Acts 4 describes BOTH the Power and the Grace which were present.
Frankly, as Acts 4 describes them, we (the 21st century church) have NEITHER (although both the POWER to speak boldly and the GRACE to love ONE ANOTHER in deed is no less available).

Fine, keep your mind closed. I'm a westerner but am open to the eastern TRUTH. The gospel is known as the gospel of grace. It is also known as the power of God. I find that those who believe grace is unmerited favor are practicing sinners and unmerited favor is comforting to them. I am my friends know the born again experience as receiving life changing power.

 

[atpollard]

Fine, keep your mind closed. I'm a westerner but am open to the eastern TRUTH. The gospel is known as the gospel of grace. It is also known as the power of God. I find that those who believe grace is unmerited favor are practicing sinners and unmerited favor is comforting to them. I am my friends know the born again experience as receiving life changing power.

Your self-righteousness is an inspiration to us all.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your self-righteousness is an inspiration to us all.

She isn't expressing self righteousness. She is claiming power through the Spirit of God to overcome sin completely. It is an overstatement of our experience in Christ on this earth but she is well intentioned to please God. We should all have such intentions to please God.

However, you are claiming exclusive power that others can not experience apart "being chosen". Which is a lie straight out of the mouth of Satan.

You're the self righteous one here. You're just appealing to the good name of God for your evil intentions.

 

[charismaticlady]

She isn't expressing self righteousness. She is claiming power through the Spirit of God to overcome sin completely. It is an overstatement of our experience in Christ on this earth but she is well intentioned to please God. We should all have such intentions to please God.

However, you are claiming exclusive power that others can not experience apart "being chosen". Which is a lie straight out of the mouth of Satan.

You're the self righteous one here. You're just appealing to the good name of God for your evil intentions.

I wish everyone could experience the true gospel that was taught by the apostles and not the doctrines of demons that have successfully replaced it during the dark ages, and especially Calvinism about which Jesus said, "you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead."

I'm glad you know the importance of being ready for the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You see by the Spirit of God and your eyes are open.

 

[civic]

I wish everyone could experience the true gospel that was taught by the apostles and not the doctrines of demons that have successfully replaced it during the dark ages, and especially Calvinism about which Jesus said, "you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead."

I'm glad you know the importance of being ready for the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You see by the Spirit of God and your eyes are open.

Amen

 

[charismaticlady]

Was the nation of Israel chosen by God?

Yes. Israel was God's chosen people. Interesting that though that is true, they weren't all saved, though were God's elect.

 

[civic]

Yes. Israel was God's chosen people. Interesting that though that is true, they weren't all saved, though were God's elect.

In fact very few became saved and most were lost. It actually flies in the face of the calvinists position on being elect/chosen.

 

[Presby02]

Yes. Israel was God's chosen people. Interesting that though that is true, they weren't all saved, though were God's elect.

Good. Then you concede it's not the apostles exclusively who are chosen. Did the apostles freely choose to follow?

 

[charismaticlady]

Good. Then you concede it's not the apostles exclusively who are chosen. Did the apostles freely choose to follow?

It was the Father that gave those apostles to Jesus. Now as we know, one of the chosen was not going to be saved even though he also walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years. And Jesus said, that you didn't choose me, I chose you. I thought that was interesting that the truth about the apostles is that Jesus and the Father were one and the same.

 

[charismaticlady]

Good. Then you concede it's not the apostles exclusively who are chosen. Did the apostles freely choose to follow?

Just in case I didn't fully answer this question, the verses on predestination were just about the apostles. So, no, the billions of Christians were not all predestined. The only others that could have been were kings and prophets in the Old Testament, And maybe those who were given offices in Christ's church. Also, the verses that talk about not being able to "snatch them out of God's hand" were the apostles. John used "key" words to direct us to information found in other scriptures with that same key word. That is how we know it was directed towards the apostles and not all Christians.

 

[civic]

Just in case I didn't fully answer this question, the verses on predestination were just about the apostles. So, no, the billions of Christians were not all predestined. The only others that could have been were kings and prophets in the Old Testament, And maybe those who were given offices in Christ's church. Also, the verses that talk about not being able to "snatch them out of God's hand" were the apostles. John used "key" words to direct us to information found in other scriptures with that same key word. That is how we know it was directed towards the apostles and not all Christians.

Yep

 

[Presby02]

Just in case I didn't fully answer this question, the verses on predestination were just about the apostles. So, no, the billions of Christians were not all predestined. The only others that could have been were kings and prophets in the Old Testament, And maybe those who were given offices in Christ's church. Also, the verses that talk about not being able to "snatch them out of God's hand" were the apostles. John used "key" words to direct us to information found in other scriptures with that same key word. That is how we know it was directed towards the apostles and not all Christians.

Incorrect. Romans 8 does not refer to the apostles exclusively.

 

[civic]

Incorrect. Romans 8 does not refer to the apostles exclusively.

Yep those who God FOREKNEW were predestined .

Next

 

[Presby02]

Yep those who God FOREKNEW were predestined .

Next

He certainly foreloved those He predestined. Your catching on.

 

[Presby02]

Yep those who God FOREKNEW were predestined .

Next

Foreloved, yup. Amen

 

[civic]

Foreloved, yup. Amen

Adding to scripture and making up words. That’s how your doctrines were invented