Starting a "new theory" of the Atonement

P

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
I recently watched an "fireside" conversation between Lennox and Dawkins. Dawkins made a very good argument relative to God's purpose in the Atonement/Forgiveness. As most learned Atheists do, his point was right on target relative to philosophy. Lennox's response was uncertain and revolved around the typical aspects of "God's justice" referenced in the Universe. However, the vanity of God's creation contradicts such appeals. It made me realize a few things that I've not "put together" until now. Feel free to criticise my view.

There are many "theories" relative to the Atonement of Jesus Christ. There are primary 7 commonly referenced views of the Atonement. This topic is important because it basically "sets" the "tone" of how a person approaches the work of Christ among humanity. Even when "our view of choice" often overlaps with another, we often "argue" over small differences..... and rightfully so. "Perspective" is important in any theology.

As the title suggests, I believe there is one primary aspect of the Atonement that is often missed relative to the Atonement.

If you were to ask me "why" Jesus died, my answer would be.... Empathy. I would not start with any aspect of sinfulness. Though I believe that all men are willingly sinful. Though I believe there is unspeakable evils in this world, God will destroy sin. It has no lasting merit. Sin is not Eternal. Sin is NOT challenging to God. It hurts US.

Empathy is Eternal. Empathy is the priestly work of Christ in the Atonement.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The Selfless action of God in the Atonement.

Mar 6:34 And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.

God empathizing in the lives of His creation.
 
Just remember there is one thing the devil wants to attack in the atonement.

He wants to water down the holiness of God judging sin, into God just being love without regard to dealing with sin in punishment.

If God were only love and not holy he would not judge nor punish sin, he would, in fact, be permissive.
 
dizerner said:
Just remember there is one thing the devil wants to attack in the atonement.

He wants to water down the holiness of God judging sin, into God just being love without regard to dealing with sin in punishment.

If God were only love and not holy he would not judge nor punish sin, he would, in fact, be permissive.
Click to expand...
There is one thing the devil wants to attack, it’s Jesus.

Do you have any proof from the Bible stating it’s the atonement?

Please quote the scripture
 
dizerner said:
Just remember there is one thing the devil wants to attack in the atonement.

He wants to water down the holiness of God judging sin, into God just being love without regard to dealing with sin in punishment.

If God were only love and not holy he would not judge nor punish sin, he would, in fact, be permissive.
Click to expand...
But I would agree the devil attacks it with PSA since it’s a direct assault on the character and nature of God. Just like the devil according to Jesus in John 8:39-44. Jesus spells it out as the father of lies, the murderer who seeks to kill Him.
 
dizerner said:
Just remember there is one thing the devil wants to attack in the atonement.

He wants to water down the holiness of God judging sin, into God just being love without regard to dealing with sin in punishment.

If God were only love and not holy he would not judge nor punish sin, he would, in fact, be permissive.
Click to expand...

God has permitted sin from the beginning. How can you deny this?
 
The Empathy of the Atoning work of Christ is powerfully persuasive in winning over the freewill of humanity.

The Perfect example of God's Love is expressed in the action of God atoning for humanity by becoming flesh and experiencing our own death for us.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Lennox's response was uncertain and revolved around the typical aspects of "God's justice" referenced in the Universe. However, the vanity of God's creation contradicts such appeals. It made me realize a few things that I've not "put together" until now. Feel free to criticise my view.
Click to expand...
No need to "criticize" it's as good a view as any, since God and HIS motives and reasons are well beyond human ability to understand.

PERSONALLY the theological issue I see in general is the "forgiveness" aspect. "Forgiveness" of SIN is talked about as the important thing about Calvary, but it's not.

Forgiveness and "being Born again" (Cleansed) are two completely different things.

Forgiveness doesn't require any "blood offering" at all - it's a simple act of the will. You rip up the I.O.U. you're holding against the person who injured you. You don't FORGET that the person isn't trustworthy, and you no longer TRUST the person, but you've stopped holding their debt to you against them. You've freed yourself from being "Bound to them" about it.

You steal $100 from me, I can simply decide to "FORGIVE" you for doing it, and "Write off the loss". You're FREE of me, and I'm FREE of you. BUT your SIN REMAINS on God's books, and my forgiveness changes nothing in that respect.

God "FORGAVE" King David for his Adultery, and Murder, but David's SIN remained to be dealt with centuries later by Jesus' SIN OFFERING on the cross, after which David's SIN was erased, as though it had never been. Same with us. David looked forward to Calvary, and we look back.

The to Goats in the Old Testament are a clue - one was killed as a blood offering, and the OTHER was imputed with Israel's SIN, and led away to perish in the wilderness. Jesus was the REALITY of both "shadows".
 
dizerner said:
What Jesus did on the Cross is not some small pedantic unnecessary subset of doctrine.

It's the heart of the Gospel, itself.

God cannot simply forgive a sin while ignoring his justice, understand that:

Click to expand...

Justice demands your death. Jesus came to give life. It was not some supposed "justice demand" that put Christ on the cross. It was His love for His creation.

Satan will get justice. He never experience Atonement.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
No need to "criticize" it's as good a view as any, since God and HIS motives and reasons are well beyond human ability to understand.

PERSONALLY the theological issue I see in general is the "forgiveness" aspect. "Forgiveness" of SIN is talked about as the important thing about Calvary, but it's not.

Forgiveness and "being Born again" (Cleansed) are two completely different things.

Forgiveness doesn't require any "blood offering" at all - it's a simple act of the will. You rip up the I.O.U. you're holding against the person who injured you. You don't FORGET that the person isn't trustworthy, and you no longer TRUST the person, but you've stopped holding their debt to you against them. You've freed yourself from being "Bound to them" about it.

You steal $100 from me, I can simply decide to "FORGIVE" you for doing it, and "Write off the loss". You're FREE of me, and I'm FREE of you. BUT your SIN REMAINS on God's books, and my forgiveness changes nothing in that respect.

God "FORGAVE" King David for his Adultery, and Murder, but David's SIN remained to be dealt with centuries later by Jesus' SIN OFFERING on the cross, after which David's SIN was erased, as though it had never been. Same with us. David looked forward to Calvary, and we look back.

The to Goats in the Old Testament are a clue - one was killed as a blood offering, and the OTHER was imputed with Israel's SIN, and led away to perish in the wilderness. Jesus was the REALITY of both "shadows".
Click to expand...
So the goat which had no sin was killed and the goat which "had" the sin went free.
 
TomL said:
So the goat which had no sin was killed and the goat which "had" the sin went free.
Click to expand...
BLOOD WAS REQUIRED, The goat that was led away, perished in the wilderness. Jesus was both goats, the sinless one who died, and the one who went to hell laden with OUR SIN.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
BLOOD WAS REQUIRED, The goat that was led away, perished in the wilderness. Jesus was both goats, the sinless one who died, and the one who went to hell laden with OUR SIN.
Click to expand...
There was nothing saying the goat in the wilderness perished before time
 
If you do a study on “Azazel” or “the scapegoat” You will find it's very interesting. Depictions of Azazel as a demon are prominent, and the wilderness was typically viewed as the abode of demons

Azazel is a term mentioned in the Bible, specifically in the context of the Old Testament, but its meaning and significance have been debated among scholars. The term appears in the Book of Leviticus, particularly in Leviticus 16, which describes the rituals of Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement.

Is Azazel a Demon?​

In Jewish legends, Azazel is considered a demon or evil spirit. During the ancient ritual of Yom Kippur, a scapegoat was sent to bear the sins of the Jewish people. For this ritual, two male goats were chosen, with one designated "for the Lord" and the other "for Azazel" through lots, as described in Leviticus 16:8.



Charles Meeks, The Lexham Bible Dictionary
 
civic said:
It’s interesting nowhere in the NT do we read anything about Jesus being connected to the scapegoat. We have been taught it from the pulpits but the NT never says a word about it.
Click to expand...
That's what I found during my study. It's the same principle as when you hear something from the pulpit when you're young then you believe it all your life and it's hard to change your opinion.
 
civic said:
It’s interesting nowhere in the NT do we read anything about Jesus being connected to the scapegoat. We have been taught it from the pulpits but the NT never says a word about it.
Click to expand...
But the typology is exact. The sins of Israel were transferred onto the Scapegoat, which was then led out and abandoned in the wilderness.
 

Similar threads

civic
Atonement Theories
Replies
1
Views
78
TomL
T
J
The law is not about mercy, and atonement is not about punishment.
Replies
11
Views
244
TomL
T
P
Justice "served" in the Atonement?
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
887
sawdust
S
P
Attitudes relative to The Atonement
Replies
5
Views
104
civic
civic
The Rogue Tomato
The Issue of Limited Atonement
26 27 28
Replies
557
Views
3K
TomL
T
Back
Top Bottom