SOTERIOLOGY 101, Provisionism [ Calvinists of course can be excluded.]

[brightfame52]

Separate not inanimate. Separate not unfunctional. He’s in hell, but thinks, responds, remembers and is remorseful and he would repent if that were possible, which he knows isn’t. And yet there is still love of his brothers to want to warn them.

Yes, Adam died, was separated from relationship with God. But he would be able to return if God extends his hand and grace to him. The offended party is always in control of the restoration possibilities in any broken relationship. Even if man would desire to restore the relationship, if God doesn’t want to, it will not happen.

But if God is willing but man isn’t, the fault is man’s, not God’s!


Doug

Hey man man sa
in Adam

Separate not inanimate. Separate not unfunctional. He’s in hell, but thinks, responds, remembers and is remorseful and he would repent if that were possible, which he knows isn’t. And yet there is still love of his brothers to want to warn them.

Yes, Adam died, was separated from relationship with God. But he would be able to return if God extends his hand and grace to him. The offended party is always in control of the restoration possibilities in any broken relationship. Even if man would desire to restore the relationship, if God doesn’t want to, it will not happen.

But if God is willing but man isn’t, the fault is man’s, not God’s!


Doug

Man is dead friend cut off from God his only hope is resurrection on a new birth

Separate not inanimate. Separate not unfunctional. He’s in hell, but thinks, responds, remembers and is remorseful and he would repent if that were possible, which he knows isn’t. And yet there is still love of his brothers to want to warn them.

Yes, Adam died, was separated from relationship with God. But he would be able to return if God extends his hand and grace to him. The offended party is always in control of the restoration possibilities in any broken relationship. Even if man would desire to restore the relationship, if God doesn’t want to, it will not happen.

But if God is willing but man isn’t, the fault is man’s, not God’s!


Doug

Man is dead see Romans 5:15

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 5:15 is not about quickening, regeneration, or born again. It is about how one is born into this life at birth. That is, the reference the "many " that died through one man's trespass and the "many" that abounded from the grace of God and the free gift are the exact same "many". The effect of Christ's obedience negated the effect of Adam's disobedience, not for just a few but for the whole of mankind. The spirit of man as given by God at each and every birth is set free from any effects of Adam's sin.

To not understand that is to malign God directly, giving heed to Augustine rather that God.

Romans 5:15 tells us man is dead by nature

 

[TibiasDad]

Hey man man sa
in Adam

Are you speaking in tongues?

Man is dead friend cut off from God his only hope is resurrection on a new birth

I have never denied this…

Doug

 

[Jim]

Romans 5:15 tells us man is dead by nature

Not if you know how to read the entire verse instead of just the first part. It tells us the truly great impact of Jesus Christ on all mankind. It says that the impact of Jesus Christ is much more than the impact of Adam on all human beings.

But you refuse to accept the true greatness of the life and death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and instead preach the gospel of Augustine rather than the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Are you speaking in tongues?

I have never denied this…

Doug

Then mans greatest need in salvation is not to do something, but to be made alive. Thats what Gods Grace does, makes dead sinners alive Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

 

[TibiasDad]

Then mans greatest need in salvation is not to do something, but to be made alive. Thats what Gods Grace does, makes dead sinners alive Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened[made alive] us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

By faith in his promise. Nothing happens to us until we believe.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Not if you know how to read the entire verse instead of just the first part. It tells us the truly great impact of Jesus Christ on all mankind. It says that the impact of Jesus Christ is much more than the impact of Adam on all human beings.

But you refuse to accept the true greatness of the life and death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and instead preach the gospel of Augustine rather than the gospel of Jesus Christ.

They dead, cant change what a verse says.

 

[brightfame52]

By faith in his promise. Nothing happens to us until we believe.

Doug

Not when you dead

 

[TibiasDad]

Not when you dead

Which means separated from God! It does not mean a lack of functional capacity, it means a lack of relationship, it means that you can do whatever you were created to be able to do but with constant imperfection and, therefore, total inadequacy of pleasing the perfection of God.

So God, in his gracious desire to restore the relationship between us, establishes the most simple action that a man can possibly do, consent to the question, ‘Do you believe me?’ A yes or no answer is all the human capacity that is required! No deed of effort to establish worthiness, for we are never worthy and never can be.

It is grace, because we don’t deserve it and because God didn’t have to do it! (That last aspect is something too often left out of the concept of grace, and is really the most dynamic aspect of grace in my humble opinion.) Even if we were perfect in every way, we cannot do anything to obligate God to do something he doesn’t want to do. God is always in control! Thus, it is always gracious!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Which means separated from God! It does not mean a lack of functional capacity, it means a lack of relationship, it means that you can do whatever you were created to be able to do but with constant imperfection and, therefore, total inadequacy of pleasing the perfection of God.

So God, in his gracious desire to restore the relationship between us, establishes the most simple action that a man can possibly do, consent to the question, ‘Do you believe me?’ A yes or no answer is all the human capacity that is required! No deed of effort to establish worthiness, for we are never worthy and never can be.

It is grace, because we don’t deserve it and because God didn’t have to do it! (That last aspect is something too often left out of the concept of grace, and is really the most dynamic aspect of grace in my humble opinion.) Even if we were perfect in every way, we cannot do anything to obligate God to do something he doesn’t want to do. God is always in control! Thus, it is always gracious!

Doug

It means you dead to God in your sins. You cant do anything of a spiritual nature to put you in union or fellowship with God. Its not until and if one is made alive can they be called into a spiritual union and fellowship with God in Christ. 1 Cor 1:9

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

But until one is MADE ALIVE BY GRACE, we be dead

 

[TibiasDad]

It means you dead to God in your sins.

Just like someone might say to somebody who has hurt them deeply, “you’re dead to me!”?

But that can’t be, because God reaches out to us seeking reconciliation through Christ. We are out of relationship and need to return to God, and seek the forgiveness and restoration he offers. We are, as the word “dead” means, separated from God.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Just like someone might say to somebody who has hurt them deeply, “you’re dead to me!”?

But that can’t be, because God reaches out to us seeking reconciliation through Christ. We are out of relationship and need to return to God, and seek the forgiveness and restoration he offers. We are, as the word “dead” means, separated from God.

Doug

Man is dead to God. He cannot choose God, Seek God, nothing of a Spiritual significance. Why ? Dead Dead Dead

 

[Jim]

They dead, cant change what a verse says.

And if you only knew what "dead" means, you would reject all that you call soteriology which is nothing more than Augustine's Gnosticism which he carried out of Manichaeism and interjected into his Christianity.

You have said that in being spiritually dead, one cannot engage spiritually in anything. But thinking, imagining, believing, loving and so much other human capacity and abilities are in fact the engagement of spirituality. Those are the very things that even the unregenerate sinner can do that come directly and only from God's creating man in His own image. They are the things that separate even the unregenerate sinner from the rest of the animal kingdom. And unless and until you know, recognize and understand the true majesty of God the creator and His creation, you will always demean that magesty with your acceptance the true evil of the doctrine of Total Depravity.

The spiritually dead are not separated from God here in this world; however, the spritually dead will be denied eternal life into the next world to come. That is the message of Adam and Eve being ejected from the Garden. Neither Adam nor Eve in being ejected from the Garden were separated from God. The rest of humanity, none of whom ever had access to the Garden, were separated from God.

 

[brightfame52]

And if you only knew what "dead" means, you would reject all that you call soteriology which is nothing more than Augustine's Gnosticism which he carried out of Manichaeism and interjected into his Christianity.

You have said that in being spiritually dead, one cannot engage spiritually in anything. But thinking, imagining, believing, loving and so much other human capacity and abilities are in fact the engagement of spirituality. Those are the very things that even the unregenerate sinner can do that come directly and only from God's creating man in His own image. They are the things that separate even the unregenerate sinner from the rest of the animal kingdom. And unless and until you know, recognize and understand the true majesty of God the creator and His creation, you will always demean that magesty with your acceptance the true evil of the doctrine of Total Depravity.

The spiritually dead are not separated from God here in this world; however, the spritually dead will be denied eternal life into the next world to come. That is the message of Adam and Eve being ejected from the Garden. Neither Adam nor Eve in being ejected from the Garden were separated from God. The rest of humanity, none of whom ever had access to the Garden, were separated from God.

Dead means Dead, spiritually dead to God.

 

[Jim]

Dead means Dead, spiritually dead to God.

chapter and verse?

 

[brightfame52]

chapter and verse?

I have showed you scripture and you believe it not. Those who sinned in Adam became dead Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[civic]

Dead means Dead, spiritually dead to God.

Spiritually dead in not found in the Bible it’s made up

 

[brightfame52]

Spiritually dead in not found in the Bible it’s made up

No its not, God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth Jn 4, however man by nature is dead to God that way. And I have already posted that the word dead in Rom 5:15 is the greek word apothnēskō and thnēskō:

1. to die, to be dead
2. metaph. to be spiritually dead

G2348 - thnēskō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G2348 - θνήσκω thnḗskō, thnay'-sko; a strengthened form of a simpler primary θάνω thánō than'-o (which is used for it only in certain tenses); to die (literally or figuratively):—be dead, die.

www.blueletterbible.org

but you guys dont receive it.

 

[TibiasDad]

No its not, God is a Spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth Jn 4, however man by nature is dead to God that way. And I have already posted that the word dead in Rom 5:15 is the greek word apothnēskō and thnēskō:

1. to die, to be dead
2. metaph. to be spiritually dead

G2348 - thnēskō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G2348 - θνήσκω thnḗskō, thnay'-sko; a strengthened form of a simpler primary θάνω thánō than'-o (which is used for it only in certain tenses); to die (literally or figuratively):—be dead, die.

www.blueletterbible.org

but you guys dont receive it.

And I have told you that apothnēskō is defined as separation, not incapacity!

599 apothnḗskō (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies 2348 /thnḗskō, "to die") – properly, die off (away from), focusing on the separation that goes with the "dying off (away from)."

We are separated from God, but he seeks reconciliation through Christ. Reconciliation with something literally dead, as you interpret it, makes no sense. But being separated, estranged makes perfect sense, like reconciling a broken marriage relationship.

Doug