SOTERIOLOGY 101, Provisionism [ Calvinists of course can be excluded.]

[TomL]

Again is Faith a fruit of the Spirit according to Gal 5:22 ? Yes or No

Do you have a problem reading?

I am telling you initial faith is not the fruit of the Spirit

You would have known that if you paid attention.

 

[brightfame52]

Do you have a problem reading?

I am telling you initial faith is not the fruit of the Spirit

You would have known that if you paid attention.

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit. I agree with John Gill on Gal 5:22 faith

faith; for though fidelity, both in words and actions, which is very ornamental to the Gospel, and a profession of religion may be meant; yet faith in Christ is not to be excluded, as it is generally by interpreters; for this is not of a man's self, nor have all men it: it is a gift of God, the operation of his power, and the work of his Spirit, whence he is styled the spirit of faith; and which therefore must have a place among his fruits; and which lies and shows itself in believing in Christ for salvation, in embracing the doctrines of the Gospel, and making a profession of them, which is called the profession of faith; all which, when right, comes from the Spirit of God. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/galatians/5-22.htm

And this writer

Faith - This is the ability to believe God when the conditions say don’t. Before a person is saved they are spiritually dead and have no faith to believe on the Lord therefore the Lord gives faith as a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It is always salvation first then once we are given faith, we then have the ability to believe. Here the word "faith" is a noun and once we have faith we then have the ability to "believe" which is a verb meaning action. So we have the ability to believe once we are given faith but not before.https://www.scionofzion.com/galatians_5_21_26.htm

I believe your issue is that you want man to have part in initiating his salvation with his own faith in the flesh. I know such thinking is anti grace salvation, Eph 2:8 plainly speaks against that, for all of "Salvation by grace through faith" is not of mans self. but the Gift of God, His Grace

 

[TomL]

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit. I agree with John Gill on Gal 5:22 faith



And this writer



I believe your issue is that you want man to have part in initiating his salvation with his own faith in the flesh. I know such thinking is anti grace salvation, Eph 2:8 plainly speaks against that, for all of "Salvation by grace through faith" is not of mans self. but the Gift of God, His Grace

Who cares what John Gill has to say when scripture states you must have faith before receiving the Spirit and you must have faith to be saved

Receive the Spirit through faith

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Through faith one is justified, declared righteous, saved, given eternal life.

John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Rom 10:9–10

that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Mark 16:16

The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 Peter 1:3–5

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you 5 who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,

Rom 3:22–24

that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Gal 2:16

but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Acts 13:39

by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Rom 4:5

But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,

1 Cor 15:1–2

Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.

Acts 13:38–39

“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 10:43

To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 26:18

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 3:23–25

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

Rom 5:1

Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Who cares what John Gill has to say when scripture states you must have faith before receiving the Spirit and you must have faith to be saved

Scripture says it, Gal 5:22 states it clear that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit.

Peter wrote that the believer obeyed through the Spirit as well as Paul 1 Pet 1:22

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

What Truth is speaking of ? How did they obey it ? By what means here in this scripture ?

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Scripture says it, Gal 5:22 states it clear that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit.

You still ignore all the evidence that was against the faulty comprehension you have

Who cares what John Gill has to say when scripture states you must have faith before receiving the Spirit and you must have faith to be saved

Receive the Spirit through faith

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Through faith one is justified, declared righteous, saved, given eternal life.

John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Eph 2:8–9

For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Rom 10:9–10

that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Mark 16:16

The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:13

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24

Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 Peter 1:3–5

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you 5 who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,

Rom 3:22–24

that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Gal 2:16

but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

John 11:25–26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”

2 Thess 2:13

But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,

Acts 13:39

by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Rom 4:5

But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,

1 Cor 15:1–2

Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.

Eph 1:13–14

in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

John 20:31

but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Gal 3:22

But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.

Acts 13:38–39

“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 10:43

To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 26:18

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 3:23–25

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

Rom 5:1

Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Peter wrote that the believer obeyed through the Spirit as well as Paul 1 Pet 1:22

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

What Truth is speaking of ? How did they obey it ? By what means here in this scripture ?

Read the context.

1 Peter 1:22–24 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart, 23 because you have been born again, not from perishable seed but imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For “all flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of the grass. The grass withers and the flower falls off,

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

You still ignore all the evidence that was against the faulty comprehension you have

Scripture says it plain, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and Peter showed that obeying the Truth, the Gospel is through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22 but you cant believe it.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Scripture says it plain, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and Peter showed that obeying the Truth, the Gospel is through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22 but you cant believe it.

Sorry, not initial faith.

You ignored the when of the Spirits gifting.


Receive the Spirit through faith

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Having believed in Christ through faith we receive the gifts of the Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, not initial faith.

You ignored the when of the Spirits gifting.


Receive the Spirit through faith

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Having believed in Christ through faith we receive the gifts of the Spirit.

Scripture says it plain, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and Peter showed that obeying the Truth, the Gospel is through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22 but you cant believe it.

 

[TomL]

Scripture says it plain, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and Peter showed that obeying the Truth, the Gospel is through the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22 but you cant believe it.

But it does not mention initial faith in Christ, by which one receives the Spirit.

Further, nowhere do we read that the Spirit unconditionally and irresistibly installs faith in man.

BTW

1 Peter 1:22 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart,

is not about faith or something that involves pre-conversion faith.

 

[brightfame52]

But it does not mention initial faith in Christ, by which one receives the Spirit.

Further, nowhere do we read that the Spirit unconditionally and irresistibly installs faith in man.

BTW

1 Peter 1:22 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart,

is not about faith or something that involves pre-conversion faith.

It mentions Faith, that covers Faith, duh Peter mentions obeying the truth, thats the Gospel that was preached to them, thats the context 1 Pet 1 22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Barnes says of 1 Pet 1:22 obeying the truth

In obeying the truth - That is, your yielding to the requirements of truth, and to its fair influence on your minds, has been the means of your becoming pure. The truth here referred to is, undoubtedly, that which is revealed in the gospel - the great system of truth respecting the redemption of the world.

Through the Spirit - By the agency of the Holy Spirit. It is his office to apply truth to the mind; and however precious the truth may be, and however adapted to secure certain results on the soul, it will never produce those effects without the influences of the Holy Spirit. Compare Titus 3:5-6; the notes at John 3:5.

Paul calls it obeying that form of Doctrine Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Even Paul recognized that God should be thanked for that obeying the Gospel Doctrine, and no doubt he means God the Holy Spirit should be thanked.

And besides that, the natural man as a servant of sin cannot yield Gospel obedience from the heart

 

[TomL]

It mentions Faith, that covers Faith, duh Peter mentions obeying the truth, thats the Gospel that was preached to them, thats the context 1 Pet 1 22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Barnes says of 1 Pet 1:22 obeying the truth



Paul calls it obeying that form of Doctrine Rom 6:17

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Even Paul recognized that God should be thanked for that obeying the Gospel Doctrine, and no doubt he means God the Holy Spirit should be thanked.

And besides that, the natural man as a servant of sin cannot yield Gospel obedience from the heart

Again

But it does not mention initial faith in Christ, by which one receives the Spirit.

Further, nowhere do we read that the Spirit unconditionally and irresistibly installs faith in man.

BTW

1 Peter 1:22 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart,

is not about faith or something that involves pre-conversion faith.

You just ignored this, and this is not an issue of initial faith.

As for Rom

Romans 6:17–18 (LEB) — 17 But thanks be to God that you were slaves of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart the pattern of teaching to which you were entrusted, 18 and having been set free from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.

It concerns saved believers, not the unsaved.

 

[brightfame52]

Again

But it does not mention initial faith in Christ, by which one receives the Spirit.

Further, nowhere do we read that the Spirit unconditionally and irresistibly installs faith in man.

BTW

1 Peter 1:22 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart,

is not about faith or something that involves pre-conversion faith.

You just ignored this, and this is not an issue of initial faith.

As for Rom

Romans 6:17–18 (LEB) — 17 But thanks be to God that you were slaves of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart the pattern of teaching to which you were entrusted, 18 and having been set free from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.

It concerns saved believers, not the unsaved.

Believing is the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[TomL]

Believing is the fruit of the Spirit.

Again

But it does not mention initial faith in Christ, by which one receives the Spirit.

Further, nowhere do we read that the Spirit unconditionally and irresistibly installs faith in man.

BTW

1 Peter 1:22 (LEB) — 22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently from the heart,

is not about faith or something that involves pre-conversion faith.

You just ignored this, and this is not an issue of initial faith.

As for Rom

Romans 6:17–18 (LEB) — 17 But thanks be to God that you were slaves of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart the pattern of teaching to which you were entrusted, 18 and having been set free from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.

It concerns saved believers, not the unsaved.