Ahar
Active member
So you're Waving the white flag?
We don't have any doubts we know that we all fall short of the glory of God and that sinless perfection is a work of the flesh.
Sinless Perfection
- Thread starter Bobby Walker
- Start date
We don't have any doubts we know that we all fall short of the glory of God and that sinless perfection is a work of the flesh.
Micaiah
Active member
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lasciviousness,
Idolatry,
witchcraft,
hatred,
variance,
emulations,
wrath,
strife,
seditions,
heresies,
murders,
drunkenness,
revellings,
and such like:
of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19-21, KJV)
I don’t see sinless perfection (holiness) on the list my friend…
Ahar
Active member
Because it's not a possibility it's a lie. Nobody can Live a sinless life Except Jesus.
Advocates of Sinless Perfection Do Not Believe the Bible.
James writes, “For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body” (James 3:2).
So, is James not saying here that a man can indeed be perfect? No, because only a few verses later, he comments, “But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison” (James 3:8).
There are two things about sinless perfection to be drawn from James’ comments. First off, James is stating that no man can tame even the tongue to the point of perfection, let alone his whole body. Advocates of sinless perfection are calling James a liar and are calling the Scripture a lie in this instance.
The second thing to note is that James is using the example of a man being perfect as a ridiculous impossibility in his writing. He is stating that all men stumble in their words, and he says anyone who claims otherwise is claiming something as ridiculous as personal sinless perfection. Advocates of sinless perfection actually believe the very thing that James cites as a ridiculous, impossible example.
Certainly we should strive to tame the tongue. We should do the best we possibly can in all areas of life. But it is unrealistic to expect perfection when the Bible itself plainly says such perfection is impossible.
The Dangers of “Sinless Perfection” Doctrine by Reese Currie
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Alive
Member
Galatians 5:19–23, Paul contrasts the acts of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit. The acts of the flesh symbolize spiritual death, but the fruit of the Spirit is evidence of spiritual life. Since a Christian has the same sinful nature they possessed before salvation, they may fall prey to the sins that nature produces if they do not live by means of the Spirit.
The remedy is found in 1st John 1:7–10
7 But if we [really] are living and walking in the Light, as He [Himself] is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses (removes) us from all sin and guilt [keeps us cleansed from sin in all its forms and manifestations].
8 If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth [which the Gospel presents] is not in us [does not dwell in our hearts].
9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].
10 If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us [the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts].
Micaiah
Active member
He’s not supposed to obey its desires anymore as a Christian.
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16, KJV)
And again, reverting to a child of disobedience is not not good:
“…the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience…” (Colossians 3:6, KJV)
Ahar
Active member
If you abide in Christ you are by no means a child of disobedience. We're not sinless we are saints that Sin Less. No one's without sin it's impossible. We're no longer slaves to sin. The sin barrier has been broken we can come boldly to The Throne. Jesus said to pray like this:
9 Pray, therefore, like this: Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven (left, remitted, and let go of the debts, and have given up resentment against) our debtors.
13 And lead (bring) us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
14 For if you forgive people their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their reckless and willful sins, leaving them, letting them go, and giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.
Matthew 6:9–15.
Looks like Jesus knew we were going to sin even as believers.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
I remember "speaking" with a couple who had been "Sinless" for YEARS!!! Of course they taught their kids to hate their grandparents because t hey were "Sinners". and they tended to be highly judgmental.
Ahar
Active member
No doubt about it. It's a dangerous false teaching. Definitely leads to pride. The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14) is portrayed as a sinner seeking mercy from God, the Pharisee, on the other hand, is shown to be proud of his own righteousness. And we know which one of them went home forgiven.
Micaiah
Active member
If you disobey Christ as a Christian you aren’t being a child of disobedience?
What is this illogical reasoning of yours?
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16, KJV)
“…Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.” (John 8:34, KJV)
Micaiah
Active member
They weren’t obeying Christ:
“…Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you…” (Matthew 5:44, KJV)
Ahar
Active member
You need to read my post again because that's not what I said you changed it.... then you accuse me of having illogical reasoning Which means:
- Ignorant or negligent of the rules of logic or sound reasoning: as, an illogical disputant.
- Contrary to the rules of logic or sound reasoning: as, an illogical inference.
- Synonyms Inconclusive, inconsequent, unsound, fallacious, sophistical.
Ahar
Active member
That's what happened when you get hung up believing in sinless perfection. What they were actually doing was just like the Pharisee and the tax collector. They thought they were better than the grandparents. That's what Sinless Perfection do to you. Make you believe lies about yourself.
Micaiah
Active member
Micaiah
Active member
They taught hate. They were not even in obedience.
No, that’s what DISOBEDIENCE does to an individual.
Hosanna
Well-known member
Disobedience will trigger Holy Spirit conviction in a believer.
Conviction of sins by the Holy Spirit:
- Occurs when the Holy Spirit impresses on our hearts that something we are doing displeases God.
- Often comes with a feeling of guilt, shame, or uneasiness about continuing in that sin.
- Is meant to draw us closer to God and bring repentance.
- Is a divine judgment that pierces the heart, revealing sin and prompting repentance.
- Is a call to “go to My Father” for forgiveness and restoration.
- Not about feeling guilty, but about realizing the need for Jesus every day.
- Not about pronouncing believers guilty of sin.
Conviction is meant to draw us closer to God and bring repentance. The Holy Spirit convicts us because He loves us and wants us to experience the joy and peace of obedience. First Thessalonians 5:19 warns believers, “Do not quench the Spirit.”
When we feel the promptings of the Holy Spirit to avoid or turn from sin, we should respond accordingly rather than dismiss them.
What Is Conviction In The Bible? A Complete Guide - Christian Website
Are you struggling with feelings of guilt over past mistakes? Do you feel God speaking to your heart, urging you to change your ways? If so, you may be
www.christianwebsite.com
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
But they were convinced that they were "Sinless". Are YOU convinced??
Micaiah
Active member
Why shouldn’t I be?
The scriptures declare:
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9, KJV)
I have confessed my sins when I converted and believed the gospel.
Are you suggesting that Christ didn’t do that for me?
Hosanna
Well-known member
It's an ongoing processed. Sanctification. You're taking 1 John 1:9 out of context, it's written to people that are already saved.
Micaiah
Active member
Seems doubtful with scriptures like these taken into account:
“…he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” (Galatians 6:8, KJV)
“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.” (Revelation 22:11, KJV)
Hosanna
Well-known member
It's not doubtful you misinterpreted it.
Galatians 6:8 says, “For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.” This verse uses an agricultural metaphor to illustrate the consequences of living according to either our sinful nature or the Holy Spirit.
If you don't have the Holy Spirit living inside of you guiding and directing you, teaching you all things then you're not saved. If we live according to our sinful nature then we are not saved. When you're saved you're born again, you're a new creation. Sometimes we may stumble and fall but Jesus will help us get back up and on the right path.
Revelation 22:11 is a verse that speaks about the final state of holiness and sanctification. It emphasizes that those who are sanctified by the Holy Spirit will be admitted into the pure state of things upon Christ's second coming. The verse also highlights the distinction between justification and sanctification, and the durability of both. Spirit-filled life bible commentary.
