Sinless Perfection
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Micaiah
Active member
Amen!
“…As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?” (Ezekiel 33:11, KJV)
But after His patience has been exalted, he kills the wicked.
Micaiah
Active member
All of those things are SIN.
So why does God torture and kill a hapless people who cannot stop sinning?
God was even angry with people for doing this:
“Therefore thus saith the LORD; Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbour: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith the LORD, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.” (Jeremiah 34:17, KJV)
civic
Well-known member
I gave you the answer now when was the last time you sinned ?
Going to refuse to answer again ?
Micaiah
Active member
Micaiah
Active member
You did not.
You’re answer logically should be something along these lines:
God is unjust to kill sinners who cannot stop sinning.
And if your belief system makes God out to an unjust God, then it’s time to reexamine what you believe.
civic
Well-known member
Nice dodge . I’ll tell you when was the last time . Today
Bearing false witness is a sin.
Next
Micaiah
Active member
And let’s assume this was true.
Would it have been just and fair for God to kill me and my family for sinning today?
civic
Well-known member
Not if you were a believer. Jesus tells Peter how many times must I forgive my brother? 70 times 7 daily. And I already referenced God is long suffering not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. Man makes the decision to believe to gospel or reject the gospel. Jesus paid the price for everyone’s sins.
I think you need a lesson on Gods attributes so you can discern the nature and character of the real God. Your view is that if a skeptic, like an atheist would view the God of the Bible. It’s from a carnal POV lacking the direction and insight that comes from the Holy Spirit.
hope this helps !!!
Micaiah
Active member
Incorrect brother.
The believers will suffer the same fate as unbelievers if they continue in sin:
“But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.” (Luke 12:45-46, KJV)
Alive
Member
Since the house of Israel is still here and have been brought back to the promised land in 1947. Perhaps his versus talking about eternal death...separation from God. Which is not going to happen because God's not done with them yet.
God's not responsible for the death of the wicked as he's offered to everyone the way of salvation.
Bottom line it's no longer a sin issue as sin has been taken care of on the cross. It's about an obedience issue. Turn from your sin and obey you have a good relationship with God. He is our heavenly father and we want to please him. Do we fall short? Of course we do. Does he forgive us when we ask for it? Of course he does?
Micaiah
Active member
So adultery, stealing, and murders would be justified by saying, I fell short today and killed my neighbor? Committed adultery with my neighbors wife? Stole my neighbor’s belongings?
Moreover, I’m not an habitual murderer, thief, or adulterer, this was my first time sinning like this…
Rockson
Well-known member
So can we walk in sinless perfection? Can we walk free from sin for any moment at all? What about for one minute of not having to repent for anything? I think most would say yes with God's spirit flowing through me and my yielding to him. How about for 5 minutes? Again I'm sure many would say well yeah sure. How about for one hour, 2, 3 or 4? How about for one day? A week, month or year?
I mean where does this thing fall off? And at that fall off point was there not a way to escape the temptation that God promised he'd provide? Thing is I don't see any rhetoric from God that YOU HAVE TO SIN. What I see is if you do commit sin IF we do we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the Righteous. I think God would have us think that we're like a batter in baseball going to home base and you don't go up there thinking you need to strike out! You go up there every time with the mental state that you're going to hit a home run!
In other words put more faith in your capacity to succeed In Christ Jesus and less faith in your capacity that you'll fail....and certainly be against a thought that YOU MUST FAIL! Now in real terms.....will we ever sin again. I'm sure we will. But don't get overly distraught or be in despair that you didn't walk in perfection. On a humous note (and I don't mean this seriously) But I can't stand people who can't admit their mistakes! I'd be the first to admit mine if I had any!
I mean where does this thing fall off? And at that fall off point was there not a way to escape the temptation that God promised he'd provide? Thing is I don't see any rhetoric from God that YOU HAVE TO SIN. What I see is if you do commit sin IF we do we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the Righteous. I think God would have us think that we're like a batter in baseball going to home base and you don't go up there thinking you need to strike out! You go up there every time with the mental state that you're going to hit a home run!
In other words put more faith in your capacity to succeed In Christ Jesus and less faith in your capacity that you'll fail....and certainly be against a thought that YOU MUST FAIL! Now in real terms.....will we ever sin again. I'm sure we will. But don't get overly distraught or be in despair that you didn't walk in perfection. On a humous note (and I don't mean this seriously) But I can't stand people who can't admit their mistakes! I'd be the first to admit mine if I had any!
Alive
Member
1 John 3:15.So adultery, stealing, and murders would be justified by saying, I fell short today and killed my neighbor? Committed adultery with my neighbors wife? Stole my neighbor’s belongings?
Moreover, I’m not an habitual murderer, thief, or adulterer, this was my first time sinning like this…
Anyone who hates (abominates, detests) his brother [in Christ] is [at heart] a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding (persevering) within him.
A saved Christian would not commit murder. As 1st John 3:15 shows.
Myself personally if I was asking in prayer for forgiveness of A sin I committed I definitely would be more respectful and sincere. It would be sincerely humbling myself begging God for mercy and asking for forgiveness. And we know what the bible says about that right? John explains it to us saved Christians.
7 But if we [really] are living and walking in the Light, as He [Himself] is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses (removes) us from all sin and guilt [keeps us cleansed from sin in all its forms and manifestations].
8 If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth [which the Gospel presents] is not in us [does not dwell in our hearts].
9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].
10 If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us [the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts].
1 John 1:7–10.
civic
Well-known member
Well saidSo can we walk in sinless perfection? Can we walk free from sin for any moment at all? What about for one minute of not having to repent for anything? I think most would say yes with God's spirit flowing through me and my yielding to him. How about for 5 minutes? Again I'm sure many would say well yeah sure. How about for one hour, 2, 3 or 4? How about for one day? A week, month or year?
I mean where does this thing fall off? And at that fall off point was there not a way to escape the temptation that God promised he'd provide? Thing is I don't see any rhetoric from God that YOU HAVE TO SIN. What I see is if you do commit sin IF we do we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the Righteous. I think God would have us think that we're like a batter in baseball going to home base and you don't go up there thinking you need to strike out! You go up there every time with the mental state that you're going to hit a home run!
In other words put more faith in your capacity to succeed In Christ Jesus and less faith in your capacity that you'll fail....and certainly be against a thought that YOU MUST FAIL! Now in real terms.....will we ever sin again. I'm sure we will. But don't get overly distraught or be in despair that you didn't walk in perfection. On a humous note (and I don't mean this seriously) But I can't stand people who can't admit their mistakes! I'd be the first to admit mine if I had any!
Micaiah
Active member
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:7-8, KJV)
Jesus destroys the works of the devil.
So we believers occasionally rebuild the devil’s works back up?
Jesus destroys the works of the devil.
So we believers occasionally rebuild the devil’s works back up?
Ozias
Member
Not if you're in Christ and He is in you. You have to abide in Christ. When we take our eyes off of Him and walk in the flesh is when we are likely to sin. The solution as stated above is to get right with God by asking for forgiveness and get back into walking in the spirit.
Micaiah
Active member
Agreed.
Yes.
So:
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.” (Colossians 3:5-7, KJV)
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24, KJV)
Believe
Active member
The danger of believing in sinless perfection is falling into works of the flesh. Commonly known as "Works Salvation"'
In this parable, a Pharisee. and a tax collector went to the temple to pray. The Pharisee prayed about how good he was, but the tax collector asked for God's mercy as he was a sinner. Jesus said that it was the tax collector who went home justified before God.
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
As Christians we have to realize that we all fall short of the glory of God and we need to humbly ask for forgiveness when we do.
In this parable, a Pharisee. and a tax collector went to the temple to pray. The Pharisee prayed about how good he was, but the tax collector asked for God's mercy as he was a sinner. Jesus said that it was the tax collector who went home justified before God.
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
As Christians we have to realize that we all fall short of the glory of God and we need to humbly ask for forgiveness when we do.
Ozias
Member
Children of disobedience are not christians obviously.
As far as christian go we still occasionally walk in the flesh.
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