Shema Israel and identifying Jesus as Jehovah/Yahweh

[TomL]

Calling on his name is not praying to him.
All prayers go to the Father through Jesus' name.

Who told you that?

prayer
[prer]
noun

1. a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship:
   
   
   

1 Corinthians 1:2–3 (LEB) — 2 to the church of God sanctified in Christ Jesus that is in Corinth, called to be saints, together with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours. 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 12:8–9 (LEB) — 8 Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would depart from me. 9 And he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, because the power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore rather I will boast most gladly in my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may reside in me.

Acts 7:59–60 (LEB) — 59 And they kept on stoning Stephen as he was calling out and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 And falling to his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” And after he said this, he fell asleep.

1 John 5:13–15 (LEB) — 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have before him: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked from him.

John 14:12–14 (LEB) — 12 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in me, the works that I am doing he will do also, and he will do greater works than these because I am going to the Father. 13 And whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

Acts 1:21–25 (LEB) — 21 Therefore it is necessary for one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time in which the Lord Jesus went in and went out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us—one of these men must become a witness of his resurrection together with us.” 23 And they proposed two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was called Justus) and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show clearly which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to depart to his own place.”


Why do you not believe God's word?

 

[TomL]

Says those who live in darkness. Because The JW,s are correct and expose those religions as false.

Rather who make empty claims they cannot support and must misquote or use spiritists or a rejecter of Christianity for support

 

[Keiw1]

You failed to obey him here

John 5:23 (NASB95) — 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

God will show us won't he. My post was fact.

 

[Keiw1]

Sorry, you have no idea what every scholar knows or even what constitutes a scholar and your Watchtower society has quoted a spiritist, a heretic who Christianity for support and still has not had New Testament Manuscripts which support their claims

BTW Jerome rejected the Septuagint because it contained deuterocanonicals

Further The Septuagint is the Old Testament that the apostles, and Jesus himself used and read and quoted from in the NT.

One cannot be a scholar unless they know facts. They can claim to be but its just false reasoning. The colleges of men who teach bible things are all in error. They teach dogmas.

 

[Keiw1]

Who told you that?

prayer
[prer]
noun

1. a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship:
   
   

1 Corinthians 1:2–3 (LEB) — 2 to the church of God sanctified in Christ Jesus that is in Corinth, called to be saints, together with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours. 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 12:8–9 (LEB) — 8 Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would depart from me. 9 And he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, because the power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore rather I will boast most gladly in my weaknesses, in order that the power of Christ may reside in me.

Acts 7:59–60 (LEB) — 59 And they kept on stoning Stephen as he was calling out and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 And falling to his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” And after he said this, he fell asleep.

1 John 5:13–15 (LEB) — 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 And this is the confidence that we have before him: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked from him.

John 14:12–14 (LEB) — 12 Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in me, the works that I am doing he will do also, and he will do greater works than these because I am going to the Father. 13 And whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

Acts 1:21–25 (LEB) — 21 Therefore it is necessary for one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time in which the Lord Jesus went in and went out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us—one of these men must become a witness of his resurrection together with us.” 23 And they proposed two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was called Justus) and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show clearly which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to depart to his own place.”


Why do you not believe God's word?

Stephen wasn't praying. He could see Jesus and was just talking to him.

 

[Keiw1]

Rather who make empty claims they cannot support and must misquote or use spiritists or a rejecter of Christianity for support

its 100% FACT. The teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers in EVERY translation on Gods earth. Where do you think that leaves the rest? Even the false religions have some truth, some is not enough. I would quote any who said a truth from God. Its not their truth, its Gods truth.
In Jesus day those Israelite spiritual leaders knew much truth, but at the same time were apostatized.

 

[Fred]

Stephen wasn't praying. He could see Jesus and was just talking to him.

The vision took place in the city, but the prayer to Jesus happened after Stephen was already dragged out of the city.

 

[TomL]

its 100% FACT. The teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers in EVERY translation on Gods earth. Where do you think that leaves the rest? Even the false religions have some truth, some is not enough. I would quote any who said a truth from God. Its not their truth, its Gods truth.
In Jesus day those Israelite spiritual leaders knew much truth, but at the same time were apostatized.

Total nonsense

Scripture refutes your view and gives equal honor and worship to the Lamb as God

Revelation 5:12–14 (NASB95) — 12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.” 13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.” 14 And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

fulfilling

John 5:23 (NASB95) — 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

which you do not obey

 

[TomL]

Stephen wasn't praying. He could see Jesus and was just talking to him.

Jesus was in heaven

Stephen as asking Jesus to receive his spirit

Acts 7:59–60 (NASB95) — 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

It is Jehovah who receives our Spirit
Psalm 31:5 (LEB) — 5 Into your hand I commit my spirit. You have redeemed me, O Yahweh, faithful God.

 

[TomL]

One cannot be a scholar unless they know facts. They can claim to be but its just false reasoning. The colleges of men who teach bible things are all in error. They teach dogmas.

Again the watchtower relied on spiritists and heretics for support

and you failed to address these facts

Sorry, you have no idea what every scholar knows or even what constitutes a scholar and your Watchtower society has quoted a spiritist, a heretic who Christianity for support and still has not had New Testament Manuscripts which support their claims

BTW Jerome rejected the Septuagint because it contained deuterocanonicals

Further The Septuagint is the Old Testament that the apostles, and Jesus himself used and read and quoted from in the NT.

 

[TomL]

God will show us won't he. My post was fact.

You have no answer for scripture

You failed to obey him here

John 5:23 (NASB95) — 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

and are shown to be disobedient

 

[Keiw1]

The vision took place in the city, but the prayer to Jesus happened after Stephen was already dragged out of the city.

In verse Acts 7:60 Stephen bends his to Jehovah in prayer, thus was not praying before he bent his knees while speaking to Jesus.

 

[Keiw1]

Total nonsense

Scripture refutes your view and gives equal honor and worship to the Lamb as God

Revelation 5:12–14 (NASB95) — 12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.” 13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.” 14 And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

fulfilling

John 5:23 (NASB95) — 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

which you do not obey

No worship mentioned of the things the lamb is worthy of. Him who sits on the throne=Jehovah God, the lamb is not on the throne.

 

[Keiw1]

Jesus was in heaven

Stephen as asking Jesus to receive his spirit

Acts 7:59–60 (NASB95) — 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

It is Jehovah who receives our Spirit
Psalm 31:5 (LEB) — 5 Into your hand I commit my spirit. You have redeemed me, O Yahweh, faithful God.

Falling on his knees to Jehovah in prayer after speaking to Jesus.

 

[Keiw1]

Again the watchtower relied on spiritists and heretics for support

and you failed to address these facts

You listen to apostates. All know some truth, even satan does. All false religions do as well. A truth is a truth no matter the source. The spiritual colleges of men teach dogmas mostly, error filled dogmas. The priests( ministers) in those religions have some truth, but are in major error on many matters. They NEVER correct the errors.

 

[Keiw1]

You have no answer for scripture

You failed to obey him here

John 5:23 (NASB95) — 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

and are shown to be disobedient

God will show the whole world who actually honors the son--Here is one way every true follower honors him=Luke 10-Acts 20:20= the most important work ever known on Gods Earth.

 

[dwight92070]

No worship mentioned of the things the lamb is worthy of. Him who sits on the throne=Jehovah God, the lamb is not on the throne.

Nor does the Lamb worship Him who is on the throne. However, all created things DO worship Him. Oh, I get it - the Lamb is NOT a created being. That explains why He receives the same worship that the ONE on the throne does, yet He himself does NOT worship Him.

 

[Fred]

In verse Acts 7:60 Stephen bends his to Jehovah in prayer, thus was not praying before he bent his knees while speaking to Jesus.

If one is not bending their knees means they aren't in prayer?


The boldface below is mine.


Insight on the Scriptures
The prayer expressed at 1 Chronicles 16:36 and those contained in the Psalms (41:13; 72:19; 89:52; 106:48), as well as the expressions contained in the canonical letters, all indicate the correctness of the use of “Amen” at the close of prayers. It is true that not all the prayers recorded show such conclusion, such as David’s closing prayer for Solomon (1Ch 29:19) or Solomon's dedication prayer at the inauguration of the temple (1 Ki 8:53-61), although such expression may well have been made.
(Amen, Volume 1, page 91)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000227

Notice what is recorded in 1 Kings 8:56-61, which the JW's affirm is part of the prayer, took place after Solomon had already risen from his knees being bent.

1 Kings 8:53-61
53 For Thou didst separate them from among all the people of the earth, to be Thine inheritance, as Thou spakest by the hand of Moses Thy slave, when Thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord God.
54 And it was so, that when Solomon had made an end of praying all this prayer and supplication unto the Lord, he arose from before the altar of the Lord, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to heaven.
55 And he stood, and blessed all the congregation of Israel with a loud voice, saying,
56 Blessed be the Lord, that hath given rest unto His people Israel, according to all that He promised: there hath not failed one word of all His good promise, which He promised by the hand of Moses His slave.
57 May the Lord our God be with us, as He was with our fathers: let Him not leave us, nor forsake us:
58 That He may incline our hearts unto Him, to walk in all His ways, and to keep His commandments, and His statutes, and His ordinances, which He commanded our fathers.
59 And let these my words, wherewith I have made supplication before the Lord, be nigh unto the Lord our God day and night, that He maintain the cause of His slave, and the cause of His people Israel at all times, as the matter shall require:
60 That all the people of the earth may know that the Lord is God, and that there is none else.
61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the Lord our God, to walk in His statutes, and to keep His commandments, as at this day.


The Watchtower: The prayer offered by Stephen when he was being martyred is recorded at Acts 7:59, 60
(Questions From Readers, February 1, 1959, page 96).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1959086

Acts 7:59-60
59 And they stoned Stephen as he called out saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them! And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

So just as a prayer can be made immediately before the knees are bent (Acts 7:59-60), so too can a prayer be made immediately after one arises from his/her knees being bent (1 Kings 8:55-61).

 

[Keiw1]

Nor does the Lamb worship Him who is on the throne. However, all created things DO worship Him. Oh, I get it - the Lamb is NOT a created being. That explains why He receives the same worship that the ONE on the throne does, yet He himself does NOT worship Him.

You must need to read the bible. All Jesus did was for his God and Father= worship. God commanded Jesus.
Jesus doesn't get worship, Catholicism mistranslated that Greek word=Proskeneu to fit their false council teachings that God is a trinity, He never was nor ever will be, Jesus does it all for his God and Father.--Jesus gets obeisance.= same Greek word that means worship to God.

 

[Keiw1]

If one is not bending their knees means they aren't in prayer?


The boldface below is mine.


Insight on the Scriptures
The prayer expressed at 1 Chronicles 16:36 and those contained in the Psalms (41:13; 72:19; 89:52; 106:48), as well as the expressions contained in the canonical letters, all indicate the correctness of the use of “Amen” at the close of prayers. It is true that not all the prayers recorded show such conclusion, such as David’s closing prayer for Solomon (1Ch 29:19) or Solomon's dedication prayer at the inauguration of the temple (1 Ki 8:53-61), although such expression may well have been made.
(Amen, Volume 1, page 91)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000227

Notice what is recorded in 1 Kings 8:56-61, which the JW's affirm is part of the prayer, took place after Solomon had already risen from his knees being bent.

1 Kings 8:53-61
53 For Thou didst separate them from among all the people of the earth, to be Thine inheritance, as Thou spakest by the hand of Moses Thy slave, when Thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord God.
54 And it was so, that when Solomon had made an end of praying all this prayer and supplication unto the Lord, he arose from before the altar of the Lord, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to heaven.
55 And he stood, and blessed all the congregation of Israel with a loud voice, saying,
56 Blessed be the Lord, that hath given rest unto His people Israel, according to all that He promised: there hath not failed one word of all His good promise, which He promised by the hand of Moses His slave.
57 May the Lord our God be with us, as He was with our fathers: let Him not leave us, nor forsake us:
58 That He may incline our hearts unto Him, to walk in all His ways, and to keep His commandments, and His statutes, and His ordinances, which He commanded our fathers.
59 And let these my words, wherewith I have made supplication before the Lord, be nigh unto the Lord our God day and night, that He maintain the cause of His slave, and the cause of His people Israel at all times, as the matter shall require:
60 That all the people of the earth may know that the Lord is God, and that there is none else.
61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the Lord our God, to walk in His statutes, and to keep His commandments, as at this day.


The Watchtower: The prayer offered by Stephen when he was being martyred is recorded at Acts 7:59, 60
(Questions From Readers, February 1, 1959, page 96).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1959086

Acts 7:59-60
59 And they stoned Stephen as he called out saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them! And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

So just as a prayer can be made immediately before the knees are bent (Acts 7:59-60), so too can a prayer be made immediately after one arises from his/her knees being bent (1 Kings 8:55-61).

By showing he had enough respect to bend his knees in prayer to Jehovah shows 100% he was not praying to Jesus.