Sealed by the baptism en the Holy Ghost

[dwight92070]

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I can't believe that you don't understand the context of this verse. Well actually, yes I can, because you don't want to hear or acknowledge the context. As is the case with every book in the Bible, John is writing to believers here. We, as believers, don't need to get born again a second time. But we DO NEED to confess our sins, when we commit them, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Keep in mind that when we were saved, our present and past sins were forgiven, but not our future sins. That would be like the President giving a pardon to a person who never committed a crime - just in case he ever does commit a crime. Another analogy is when the Catholic church sold indulgences, so they could be forgiven BEFORE they commit adultery or BEFORE they murder. God doesn't act that way. Even after we're saved, He expects us to confess and forsake our sins BEFORE He will forgive us. Yet another analogy is the husband of a newlywed couple, asking his wife to forgive him for ANY and ALL sins that he will commit during their marriage - so that he won't have to keep asking for her forgiveness or to keep confessing to her, his sins. That's NOT a marriage. That is wife abuse.

I said that there are NO verses that make confession and baptism necessary FOR SALVATION. Which is true. Just like James 2, so Romans 10:8-10 is written to believers, not those who are just getting saved.

This becomes obvious when we look at the context in Romans 10:5 and 6. Paul is comparing a man who PRACTICES RIGHTEOUSNESS based on the law in verse 5, with a man who PRACTICES FAITH based on the righteousness of Christ under the Law of Christ, that is, the New Covenant.

As believers, we do confess Jesus as our Lord continually, and we do believe continually in our hearts that God raised Jesus from the dead, which, if we continue in that faith and that confession, we will abide in His righteousness and His salvation. Yes we are saved now, but we must continue in our faith until the end of our lives to ultimately be saved. There's NO SALVATION for those who do not continue to believe:

John 8:31 Jesus said we are to continue in His word, or we are not His disciples.
Acts 13:43 Paul and Barnabas said that we are to continue in the grace of God.
Acts 14:22 Paul and Barnabas said we are to continue in the faith.
Romans 11:22 Paul said that if we don't continue in God's kindness, we will be cut off.
2 Timothy 2:12 Paul said that if we deny Him, He also will deny us.
Colossians 1:22-23 Paul said that Jesus will present us before God holy and blameless and beyond reproach, IF INDEED WE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH AND NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL.

 

[dwight92070]

ouch,, when will christ come back and pay for our future sins?

He already did. The cross is not only retroactive, but it is also proactive. But our confession is only retroactive - not proactive. We still need to confess our sins and repent in order to be forgiven. That's what 1 John 1:9 is all about. Please see the analogies in #341 that I gave.
I too believed that all my sins past, present, and future were forgiven when I first came to the Lord, but a more mature teacher of the word helped me to understand that that is not true.
So what if I die, having not confessed or repented of all my sins? Am I lost forever? No, I don't think so. But I don't think that God is just waiting to crush us for forgetting or even delaying our confession and repentance. We may lose some reward, but I don't believe He's going to send us to hell, because we forgot about a sin that we had committed. He is merciful. But we should keep "short accounts" with Him, as much as is possible. We do that with our wives. Shouldn't we do that with Him? Just as we want a good relationship with our wives, even so we must make every attempt to keep a good relationship with Him.
Do you ignore offenses that you have committed against your wife (if you're married)? If you want to keep your marriage intact, you can't. You must go to her, confess your sins, and repent of them, and seek her forgiveness. How much more should we respect God when we sin, and go to Him and repent, and seek His forgiveness? He too gets offended - do not grieve the Holy Spirit.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

He already did.

ah, then they are forgiven when the rest of your sins are forgiven

The cross is not only retroactive, but it is also proactive. But our confession is only retroactive - not proactive. We still need to confess our sins and repent in order to be forgiven. That's what 1 John 1:9 is all about. Please see the analogies in #341 that I gave.

ah, we are under law not under grace, got it

I too believed that all my sins past, present, and future were forgiven when I first came to the Lord, but a more mature teacher of the word helped me to understand that that is not true.

sorry to hear you were led astray

So what if I die, having not confessed or repented of all my sins? Am I lost forever? No, God is not just waiting to crush us for forgetting or even delaying our confession and repentance. He is merciful. But we should keep "short accounts" with Him. We do that with our wives. Shouldn't we do that with Him?

Yes he is merciful. thats grace. when we confessed and he saved us, he saved us knowing all my past sins, my present sins and future sins.

Do you ignore offenses that you have committed against your wife (if you're married)? If you want to keep your marriage intact, you can't. You must go to her, confess your sins, and repent of them, and seek her forgiveness. How much more should we respect God when we sin, and go to Him and repent, and seek His forgiveness? He too gets offended - do not grieve the Holy Spirit.

I confess my sins, to be healed. not to earn salvation

 

[dwight92070]

ah, then they are forgiven when the rest of your sins are forgiven

ah, we are under law not under grace, got it

sorry to hear you were led astray

Yes he is merciful. thats grace. when we confessed and he saved us, he saved us knowing all my past sins, my present sins and future sins.

I confess my sins, to be healed. not to earn salvation

So you think that obedience to 1 John 1:9 and the other verses that I mentioned in #341 - is earning our salvation?

As those verses tell us (and many more) our salvation is secure IF WE CONTINUE in His word, in His grace, in the faith, in His kindness, in NOT denying Him, etc.

Apparently, you're deceived by the once-saved-always-saved false teaching. That's like saying once-married-always-married. It doesn't matter what you do or don't do. She will never leave you or divorce you. And of course you will never leave her or divorce her.

Open up your eyes to see that deception. None of us want to leave God or our wives - but unfortunately these things still happen.

1 Chronicles 28:9 "If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever."
2 Chronicles 15:2 "And if you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will forsake you."

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament are CLEAR about this truth.

Can you please find a verse that tells us that our future sins are forgiven? Yes, Jesus paid for them, but that doesn't automatically give you forgiveness from them. Jesus paid for the sins OF ALL MANKIND, PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE. So, according to your reasoning, ALL MANKIND IS FORGIVEN. That means everyone is saved??? I don't think so.

 

[dwight92070]

ah, then they are forgiven when the rest of your sins are forgiven

ah, we are under law not under grace, got it

sorry to hear you were led astray

Yes he is merciful. thats grace. when we confessed and he saved us, he saved us knowing all my past sins, my present sins and future sins.

I confess my sins, to be healed. not to earn salvation

1 John 1:9 doesn't say to confess our sins "to be healed", it says we confess our sins to be forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness. So yes, your future sins will not be forgiven if you don't repent and confess them.

I'm sorry you were led astray.

Jesus is speaking to His disciples when He said "For if you forgive others for their transgressions (future), your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions (future)." Matthew 6:14-15

So, in the future, if you don't forgive others their sins against you, then He won't forgive YOUR future sins.

So, if we obey Jesus, are we putting ourselves under the Law? Of course not! Obeying Jesus is what frees us from the Law.

 

[dwight92070]

This is the tragedy of once-saved-always-saved. It hinders Christians from doing anything, or else they are putting themselves under the law. Nonsense!

Jesus said if we hear His words and DO THEM, we will be like a wise man building our house on the rock, that will withstand the storms.

But if we hear His words and DO NOT DO THEM, we will be like a foolish man building our house on the sand, that will fall in the storms.

We take our directions from Jesus - NOT from once-saved-always-saved deceived preachers and teachers. If we follow them, we will bear NO fruit, because we won't do anything. Jesus tells us what happens to branches who don't abide in (obey) Him - they are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Paul said, "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, ALWAYS ABOUNDING IN THE WORK OF THE LORD, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord." 1 Cor. 15:58

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So you think that obedience to 1 John 1:9 and the other verses that I mentioned in #341 - is earning our salvation?

As those verses tell us (and many more) our salvation is secure IF WE CONTINUE in His word, in His grace, in the faith, in His kindness, in NOT denying Him, etc.

Apparently, you're deceived by the once-saved-always-saved false teaching. That's like saying once-married-always-married. It doesn't matter what you do or don't do. She will never leave you or divorce you. And of course you will never leave her or divorce her.

Open up your eyes to see that deception. None of us want to leave God or our wives - but unfortunately these things still happen.

1 Chronicles 28:9 "If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever."
2 Chronicles 15:2 "And if you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will forsake you."

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament are CLEAR about this truth.

Can you please find a verse that tells us that our future sins are forgiven? Yes, Jesus paid for them, but that doesn't automatically give you forgiveness from them. Jesus paid for the sins OF ALL MANKIND, PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE. So, according to your reasoning, ALL MANKIND IS FORGIVEN. That means everyone is saved??? I don't think so.

Are we under law or under grace?

I do 1 John 1 9. Not to keep saved though because I love my father

You want to be under law feel free

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

This is the tragedy of once-saved-always-saved. It hinders Christians from doing anything, or else they are putting themselves under the law. Nonsense!

Jesus said if we hear His words and DO THEM, we will be like a wise man building our house on the rock, that will withstand the storms.

But if we hear His words and DO NOT DO THEM, we will be like a foolish man building our house on the sand, that will fall in the storms.

We take our directions from Jesus - NOT from once-saved-always-saved deceived preachers and teachers. If we follow them, we will bear NO fruit, because we won't do anything. Jesus tells us what happens to branches who don't abide in (obey) Him - they are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

Paul said, "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, ALWAYS ABOUNDING IN THE WORK OF THE LORD, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord." 1 Cor. 15:58

John said it is the knowledge we have eternal life that keeps us in line and in faith

Please stop you silly false accusation we do not like works. Your bound by works because you are under law as you reject grace

Now feel free to boast in your sin and your good works. I will boast in christ

The wage of sin is death your good works will not save you

God demands perfection since non of us have achieves that we are bound to fall under grace

 

[TomL]

ref:#330
'In Whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in Whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,'
(Eph.1:13)

Hello @TomL,

Yes, thank you. That is what comes of rushing.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You are welcome

 

[dwight92070]

Are we under law or under grace?

I do 1 John 1 9. Not to keep saved though because I love my father

You want to be under law feel free

Of course we're under grace AND the law of Christ.

I also obey 1 John 1:9, not to stay saved, but to have my future sins forgiven, as it promises AND to obey the word.

You are the tragic result of the false teaching of once-saved-always-saved. You think I'm under law - Ha!, yet you are under the bondage of deception by the doctrine of once-saved-always-saved. It irritates you when you encounter someone who disagrees with you on that point. That's a typical reaction for those trapped in deception.

 

[dwight92070]

John said it is the knowledge we have eternal life that keeps us in line and in faith

Please stop you silly false accusation we do not like works. Your bound by works because you are under law as you reject grace

Now feel free to boast in your sin and your good works. I will boast in christ

The wage of sin is death your good works will not save you

God demands perfection since non of us have achieves that we are bound to fall under grace

You said: John said it is the knowledge we have eternal life that keeps us in line and in faith.

Really, please quote that verse, where John said that.

I'll tell you what keeps us in line - our continued faith in Jesus, abiding in Jesus, His grace, His word, His forgiveness AND His warnings. Did you forget? The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Those are the things that keep us in line.

So you think we are to ignore ALL the warnings about falling away and keeping the faith and denying Him and having an evil unbelieving heart and not abiding in Him?

You DON'T like good works, because you're afraid you might accidentally be attempting to stay saved, and thereby going under the law. But that is Satan deceiving you - getting you to do nothing. I don't have that fear, because I know I am under His grace, and I obey the word and do good works because I love Him. I am not depending on anything that I do or don't do for my salvation. My dependence is on faith alone in Christ alone and trusting in His shed blood. I don't boast in doing good works - that's what He expects of me - and you. Boast in my sin? Ha! That's an especially shaming accusation. Why would I boast in grieving the Holy Spirit?

Obviously I hit a nerve since you have gone into a tirade. That is typical for those who cling to false teaching. They get very angry whenever anyone disagrees with them.

Jesus said: "Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord', and do not do what I say"? Luke 6:46

Paul said: "This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God WILL BE CAREFUL TO ENGAGE IN GOOD DEEDS. These things are good and profitable."

We have His perfection as we abide in Him - good works won't add anything to that.

Please don't forget to quote that verse where John tells us that we are kept in line and in faith by the knowledge that we have of eternal life.

That's another typical trait of those trapped in false doctrine - they tend to make up verses that aren't there.

 

[Johann]

Of course we're under grace AND the law of Christ.

I also obey 1 John 1:9, not to stay saved, but to have my future sins forgiven, as it promises AND to obey the word.

You are the tragic result of the false teaching of once-saved-always-saved. You think I'm under law - Ha!, yet you are under the bondage of deception by the doctrine of once-saved-always-saved. It irritates you when you encounter someone who disagrees with you on that point. That's a typical reaction for those trapped in deception.

Don't forget the to mention the law of the Spirit as well

Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

ὰρ the ὁ Law νόμος of the τοῦ Spirit Πνεύματος---

Johann.

 

[Jim]

I can't believe that you don't understand the context of this verse. Well actually, yes I can, because you don't want to hear or acknowledge the context. As is the case with every book in the Bible, John is writing to believers here. We, as believers, don't need to get born again a second time. But we DO NEED to confess our sins, when we commit them, and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And I can't believe that you don't understand the context of 1 John 1:9. Well actually, yes I can, because you don't want to hear or acknowledged the context. Yes, John is addressing his letter to believers. But that doesn't mean that the subject(s) he is writing about includes only believers. Note 1 John 2:2. You are correct, we, as believers, don't need to get born again a second time.

Keep in mind that when we were saved, our present and past sins were forgiven, but not our future sins.

That shows that you really do not understand what it means to be Justified. Having been declared righteous , our present, past and all future sins are forgiven. We are forgiven. To be justified, to have been declared righteous, is a state of being before God. It is what, who and how we are.

That would be like the President giving a pardon to a person who never committed a crime - just in case he ever does commit a crime.

Yes, that would be like the President giving a pardon to a person who never committed a crime - just in case he ever does commit a crime. That is precisely what it means to be saved, to be justified and regenerated.

Another analogy is when the Catholic church sold indulgences, so they could be forgiven BEFORE they commit adultery or BEFORE they murder. God doesn't act that way.

Bad analogy. The selling of indulgences by the Catholic Church was the result of thinking much like yours that being forgiven had to be done again and again and again for each time that one committed a sin. It was a condition of being saved, then lost, then saved, then lost over and over again throughout life. That is simply not true.

Even after we're saved, He expects us to confess and forsake our sins BEFORE He will forgive us. Yet another analogy is the husband of a newlywed couple, asking his wife to forgive him for ANY and ALL sins that he will commit during their marriage - so that he won't have to keep asking for her forgiveness or to keep confessing to her, his sins. That's NOT a marriage. That is wife abuse.

Well fortunately, God, in justifying and regenerating us, has placed us in the position of having Jesus as our advocate and being the propitiation for our sins (1 John 2:1-2).

I said that there are NO verses that make confession and baptism necessary FOR SALVATION. Which is true. Just like James 2, so Romans 10:8-10 is written to believers, not those who are just getting saved.

And you, incorrectly, have interpreted James 2 and Romans 10 to mean that we need to be saved again and again. That simply is not true. To be saved is a state of being. It is who we are. To believe with the heart and confess with the mouth places us in a condition of being saved, that is, being justified and regenerated. It is a new condition, a new standing before God.

But obviously, you do not know and understand what means to be a forgiven child of God. And since that is the case, you apparently do not really know and understand how one becomes a forgiven child of God.

Now if you would like to actually discuss the context of 1 John 1:9, we could do that. Obviously, you don't know what it is.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Of course we're under grace AND the law of Christ.

I also obey 1 John 1:9, not to stay saved, but to have my future sins forgiven, as it promises AND to obey the word.

Grace means unmerited. It’s Grace alone or its works

You can’t have it both ways

You can”t keep the law of Christ either. You can not live perfectly. You would still fall short of Gods glory and be condemned where you stand. Hence why you need the cross

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You said: John said it is the knowledge we have eternal life that keeps us in line and in faith.

Really, please quote that verse, where John said that.

I'll tell you what keeps us in line - our continued faith in Jesus, abiding in Jesus, His grace, His word, His forgiveness AND His warnings. Did you forget? The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Those are the things that keep us in line.

So you think we are to ignore ALL the warnings about falling away and keeping the faith and denying Him and having an evil unbelieving heart and not abiding in Him?

You DON'T like good works, because you're afraid you might accidentally be attempting to stay saved, and thereby going under the law. But that is Satan deceiving you - getting you to do nothing. I don't have that fear, because I know I am under His grace, and I obey the word and do good works because I love Him. I am not depending on anything that I do or don't do for my salvation. My dependence is on faith alone in Christ alone and trusting in His shed blood. I don't boast in doing good works - that's what He expects of me - and you. Boast in my sin? Ha! That's an especially shaming accusation. Why would I boast in grieving the Holy Spirit?

Obviously I hit a nerve since you have gone into a tirade. That is typical for those who cling to false teaching. They get very angry whenever anyone disagrees with them.

Jesus said: "Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord', and do not do what I say"? Luke 6:46

Paul said: "This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God WILL BE CAREFUL TO ENGAGE IN GOOD DEEDS. These things are good and profitable."

We have His perfection as we abide in Him - good works won't add anything to that.

Please don't forget to quote that verse where John tells us that we are kept in line and in faith by the knowledge that we have of eternal life.

That's another typical trait of those trapped in false doctrine - they tend to make up verses that aren't there.

I write to you these things so you may know you have eternal life and continue to believe in his name

Faith is based on hope and knowledge we have eternal life

Not hope in self and how good we may or may not be

Faith produces works

In the hope If eternal life. Which God, who can not lie. Promised before time began

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things not seen

Scripture is clear. Hope is in Christ. Not self

Praying for you

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Don't forget the to mention the law of the Spirit as well

Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

ὰρ the ὁ Law νόμος of the τοῦ Spirit Πνεύματος---

Johann.

And what does that law say?

Life in christ

Life in Christ is based on him. His promise his work. Not in our work

People want to put us back under law while professing to be for christ

 

[Jim]

And what does that law say?

Life in christ

Life in Christ is based on him. His promise his work. Not in our work

People want to put us back under law while professing to be for christ

It is important to understand that the "law of the Spirit" is different from the "law of sin and death"; but nevertheless, it is a law. We, as children of God, live under that law. We must strive to know what that law is. Unfortunately, most do not spend much time trying to know and understand what that law really is.

 

[Johann]

And what does that law say?

Life in christ

Life in Christ is based on him. His promise his work. Not in our work

People want to put us back under law while professing to be for christ

I'm strictly neutral brother, not taking sides.

J.

 

[dwight92070]

And I can't believe that you don't understand the context of 1 John 1:9. Well actually, yes I can, because you don't want to hear or acknowledged the context. Yes, John is addressing his letter to believers. But that doesn't mean that the subject(s) he is writing about includes only believers. Note 1 John 2:2. You are correct, we, as believers, don't need to get born again a second time.

That shows that you really do not understand what it means to be Justified. Having been declared righteous , our present, past and all future sins are forgiven. We are forgiven. To be justified, to have been declared righteous, is a state of being before God. It is what, who and how we are.

Yes, that would be like the President giving a pardon to a person who never committed a crime - just in case he ever does commit a crime. That is precisely what it means to be saved, to be justified and regenerated.

Bad analogy. The selling of indulgences by the Catholic Church was the result of thinking much like yours that being forgiven had to be done again and again and again for each time that one committed a sin. It was a condition of being saved, then lost, then saved, then lost over and over again throughout life. That is simply not true.

Well fortunately, God, in justifying and regenerating us, has placed us in the position of having Jesus as our advocate and being the propitiation for our sins (1 John 2:1-2).

And you, incorrectly, have interpreted James 2 and Romans 10 to mean that we need to be saved again and again. That simply is not true. To be saved is a state of being. It is who we are. To believe with the heart and confess with the mouth places us in a condition of being saved, that is, being justified and regenerated. It is a new condition, a new standing before God.

But obviously, you do not know and understand what means to be a forgiven child of God. And since that is the case, you apparently do not really know and understand how one becomes a forgiven child of God.

Now if you would like to actually discuss the context of 1 John 1:9, we could do that. Obviously, you don't know what it is.

Just because we need to confess our future sins, so that He will forgive and cleanse us of them, does not mean that we become unsaved and then get saved again. That shows your very confused thinking. So, if you sin now, after being saved, do you actually believe you lose your salvation? Of course you don't. You, as a saved person, obey 1 John 1:9. You confess your current sin(s) and He is faithful and righteous to forgive you and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness. You're NOT getting saved again. THAT is a total misunderstanding of that verse.

The Bible itself compares our relationship with Jesus as a marriage. Do you you have to ask your wife to forgive you again and again and again - EVERY time you sin against her? Of course you do! If you don't, you will have a very strained and miserable marriage. Christianity is a relationship with Jesus that must be tended to daily. It's not simply a contract that you signed and then you have little concern about offending the one you made a contract with.

No, we don't get saved again and again, but we deal with sins as we commit them, just as we should when we offend our wives.

I stated the context of Romans 10. Paul is comparing a man who practices righteousness based on the law (verse 5) vs. a man who practices righteousness based on faith (verse 6). Even today after decades of walking with the Lord, we confess Jesus as our Lord, and we believe in our heart that God raised Him from the dead. By God's grace and our obedience, we will confess that and believe that until we die. Yes, there was A FIRST TIME when we confessed that and believed that - that was when we were born again. But Romans 10 is NOT referring to our first time. It's referring to our on-going walk with the Lord - by faith. Paul is addressing Christians who have already walked with the Lord for some time. He's NOT telling unbelievers how to get saved.

So it is with James, who is also addressing Christians who are already saved. We see that clearly with his example of Abraham. Abraham had walked with the Lord for SEVERAL DECADES at the time he offered up Isaac - and yet at that very time, God declared him righteous, because he believed Him. By the way, He also declared Abraham righteous in Genesis 15:1-6, when He told him that his descendants would be like the stars in the heavens - too many to count. Abraham believed God on that (previous) occasion as well, and God credited his faith as righteousness - even DECADES AFTER he began his walk with God.

So Romans 10 and James 2 have to be taken in context. Both are speaking of believers who have already walked with God over a period of time - NOT new believers.

You don't have to worry about my knowledge of whether I'm a forgiven child of God or not. There's no doubt or question in my mind - nor has there been since 1970, when I was born again.

 

[dwight92070]

Grace means unmerited. It’s Grace alone or its works

You can’t have it both ways

You can”t keep the law of Christ either. You can not live perfectly. You would still fall short of Gods glory and be condemned where you stand. Hence why you need the cross

We are commanded to keep the law of Christ. Nobody is claiming perfection, except that we have perfect righteousness IN HIM, because He is perfect. We know there were believers who were under the Law, who were called blameless and righteous in the sight of God - Zacharias and Elizabeth, the parents of John the Baptist - Luke 1:6 Even Paul claimed that he was blameless as to the righteousness which is in the Law - Philippians 3:6 Does that mean that they were perfect, that they never sinned? Of course not. We know that all have sinned. It means that when they did commit a sin, they obeyed the Law and made the appropriate sacrifice or restitution, etc. - in order to keep the Law. As they faithfully obeyed the Law, God SAW them as RIGHTEOUS.

Keeping the Law of Christ does not mean we never sin, just as Old Testament saints were called "blameless" and yet they still sinned on occasion. In keeping the Law of Christ, when we do sin, He has given us a provision - 1 John 1:9 to address the sin and receive His forgiveness - then we move on. We don't lose our salvation when as a believer, we still sin occasionally. We don't rationalize our sin - we don't want to sin - but as James says: "We all stumble in many ways ..." James 3:2 But the fact that WE WILL sin - is inevitable. Thank God that He has given us a way to deal with that - other than to think that that sin has already been forgiven. If that was true, then why does John tell Christians that "He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (possibly) years after they have been saved?

Look at verse 7. John makes it very clear here that we can "walk in the Light" and still sin, even though we don't want to:

"but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, AND THE BLOOD OF JESUS HIS SON CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN."

BUT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY, since we were saved years ago. If it did, John would not have continued to give us instructions as to what we are to do, when we sin - in verses 8-10.

We ARE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM (even though from time to time, WE STILL SIN). 2 Corinthians 5:21 The key words there are IN HIM. As we abide in Him, we can bear much fruit, and we will please Him by obeying Him:

"who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, ZEALOUS FOR GOOD DEEDS. Titus 2:14

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." Ephesians 2:10

So what happens if a Christian decides that they do not want to forgive someone? If someone killed your wife, would you forgive him? If you didn't, then Jesus said that the Father would not forgive your sins. How can that be, since you already had your sins forgiven when you got saved?