MTMattie
Well-known member
Thank you, thank you, thank you......
Baptism "en" the Holy Ghost
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Where do you see water in that passage?
There is a baptism into Christ.
A baptism into his death.
A Baptism into water does not appear
Jesus was not buried underwater or the ground for that matter
Rather it is union with Christ and thus union with him in his death that enables us to die to sin and walk in newness of life
Romans 6:4–5 (NASB95) — 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
Romans 6:6–8 (NASB95) , 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Our union with him means We were crucified with him
Johann
Well-known member
Correct.
Yes, Jesus was placed in a tomb that was above ground, as was customary for Jewish burials of the wealthy in the first century. The Greek words used in the Gospels to describe this tomb are-
τάφος (taphos) – meaning "tomb" or "grave," used in Matthew 27:60.
μνημεῖον (mnēmeion) – meaning "sepulcher" or "memorial tomb," used frequently in the New Testament (e.g., Matthew 27:52, Mark 15:46, John 20:1).
λατομηθείς (latomētheis) – meaning "hewn out of rock," used in Matthew 27:60 to indicate that the tomb was carved out of a rock face, not dug into the ground.
καινόν (kainon) – meaning "new," as in καινῷ μνημείῳ (kainō mnēmeiō, "new tomb") in Matthew 27:60, indicating it had never been used before.
These terms confirm that Jesus was buried in a rock-hewn tomb, likely a first-century kokh tomb (bench tomb), above ground, sealed with a large stone.
J.
And there was no water there.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Buried in a cave does not constitute being buried above ground.
Matt 12:40 - "for just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea monster for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights."
It certainly does not constitute being buried underground.
MTMattie
Well-known member
The Tomb
Joseph's tomb is described as new and unused, hewn out of rock, and located in a garden near the site of the crucifixion. Matthew records: "Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb, which he had cut out of the rock. Then he rolled a great stone across the entrance of the tomb and went away" (Matthew 27:59-60). The newness of the tomb is significant, as it underscores the purity and honor of the burial site.
The location of the tomb in a garden is also noteworthy, as it fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah 53:9, which states, "He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death." The garden setting evokes imagery of life and resurrection, contrasting with the death that had just occurred.
Matthew 27:59-60 KJV
59And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,60And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulcher, and departed.
More?
Oh, I bet you want to know about that :" so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights."...?
I see that as when Jesus descended to Sheol.... But let's not get off topic here. Would be a great thread starter if you want to.
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Seabass
Active member
There is one baptism is this present gospel dispensation, Eph 4:5, that baptism being Christ's baptism of the great commission by which disciples are made, has humans administering water baptism, saves, and is commanded to all men.
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
The verb "make" is the main verb. Present participles "baptizing" and "teaching" are modal participles that occur at the same time as the main verb. In other words, "teaching" and "baptizing" are the modes, the means by which disciples are made. Teaching alone does not make one a disciple, it takes BOTH teaching AND baptizing...no baptizing = no disciple. Hence the is NO such thing in the NT gospel as untaught, unbaptized Christian.
What is the Purpose of Baptism? (Part 1) - Apologetics Press
Matthew 28:19-20 constitutes the “marching orders” for the apostles in promulgating the spread of Christianity in the first century. Embedded within this “Great Commission” is one of the key prerequisites to being saved: water baptism. The precise wording expressed by Jesus provides...
apologeticspress.org
This can only mean that the baptism of Mk 16;16; Acts 2:38; Rom 6:3-5; Gal 3:27; Col 2; 11-12; 1 Pet 3:21 are all the one baptism of the great commission which is human administered water baptism.
This is the exactly what happen in Acts 8 with Phillip and the eunuch....Phillip made a disciple of the eunuch by BOTH teaching him AND water baptizing him per the great commission as God has purposed disciples be made. Again teaching alone did not make the eunuch a Christian, it took BOTH teaching and water baptizing. The eunuch was not 'spirit baptized' was not saved by faith alone, not save by being told to recite some mythical 'sinner's prayer'. But was made a disciple by teaching and baptizing per the great commission.
What cannot be found in Rom 6:3-5 is some kind of 'spirit baptism' nor that the baptism of Rom 6 is sprinkling water. As I already posted in earlier posted, the action of baptism is a burial. Christ was buried in the heart of the earth, (Mt 12:40). His body wrapped in linen and entombed, buried, enclosed in the earth as today where dead bodies are placed in caskets and buried, entombed in the earth. Christ was not placed in a tomb then sprinkled with dirt. The gospel is the death BURIAL & resurrection of Christ per 1 Cor 15:1-4 not the death, sprinkling & resurrection of Christ. Sprinkling is an invention of man and has no place in N gospel of Christ.
That would be the Baptism en the Spirit, The baptism by the wasy of the living water
Water baptism is a symbol of the real baptism
That simply shows water baptism as a symbol should be practicedMatt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
The verb "make" is the main verb. Present participles "baptizing" and "teaching" are modal participles that occur at the same time as the main verb. In other words, "teaching" and "baptizing" are the modes, the means by which disciples are made. Teaching alone does not make one a disciple, it takes BOTH teaching AND baptizing...no baptizing = no disciple. Hence the is NO such thing in the NT gospel as untaught, unbaptized Christian.
What is the Purpose of Baptism? (Part 1) - Apologetics Press
Matthew 28:19-20 constitutes the “marching orders” for the apostles in promulgating the spread of Christianity in the first century. Embedded within this “Great Commission” is one of the key prerequisites to being saved: water baptism. The precise wording expressed by Jesus provides...
You cannot deny the Gentiles were baptized en the Spirit
Additionally disciples (probably of John) were baptized en the Spirit in Acts 19
And in Acts 8
i
You are reading water into passages it does not appear
There is no mention of water in Rom 6:3 or Col 2:11-13 or Gal 3:27
You are rejecting the work of Christ
Matt 3:11I baptize you with water for repentance, but the one who comes after me is more powerful than I am, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8I baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Luke 3:16John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but the one who is more powerful than I am is coming, of whom I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
and replacing it with a work of man
Um in Acts 8 the Samaritans had not received the Spirit by means of water baptism. It was not until the apostles came down and ministered to them that they did
Without the Spirit thery had not yet belonged to Christ
Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.
Water baptism was insufficient there
I never mentioned Sprinkling
And that baptism is into Christ, into his death not into water
One is not submerged in Christ and quickly withdrawn
One is united to Christ to receive from the union new a life
It is to be a permanent union and and it is effected by the Spirit
MTMattie
Well-known member
A great way to grow a church and following.
There is not one word in this Matt 28:19-20 that suggests being saved.
The verb "make" is the main verb. Present participles "baptizing" and "teaching" are modal participles that occur at the same time as the main verb. In other words, "teaching" and "baptizing" are the modes, the means by which disciples are made. Teaching alone does not make one a disciple, it takes BOTH teaching AND baptizing...no baptizing = no disciple. Hence the is NO such thing in the NT gospel as untaught, unbaptized Christian.
What is the Purpose of Baptism? (Part 1) - Apologetics Press
Matthew 28:19-20 constitutes the “marching orders” for the apostles in promulgating the spread of Christianity in the first century. Embedded within this “Great Commission” is one of the key prerequisites to being saved: water baptism. The precise wording expressed by Jesus provides...
This can only mean that the baptism of Mk 16;16; Acts 2:38; Rom 6:3-5; Gal 3:27; Col 2; 11-12; 1 Pet 3:21 are all the one baptism of the great commission which is human administered water baptism.
A great way to built a water cult.
Seabass
Active member
You unproven claim that Rom 6:3-6 is some kind of spirit baptism fails on multiple points:
1) "one baptism" Eph 4:5 proprt interpretation/exegesis requires word be taken at their primary, literal meaning unless something in the context proves otherwise:
F.F. Bruce: “baptism in the New Testament is always baptism in water unless the context shows it to be something else; that is to say, the word is always to be understood literally unless the context indicates a figurative meaning” (Questions Answered, p. 106).
There is nothing in the context that shows baptism is being used in a figurative sense.
2) in your attempt to get around the BIble's teaching on the necessity of water baptism you alluded to TWO baptism 1) Spirit baptism 2) water baptism when there is but ONE baptism.
3) the baptism of the great commission that makes disciples is the one baptism of Eph 4:5. That baptism was commanded to all men, administered by humans, saves and lasts till the end of time. Humans cannot administer any kind of spirit baptism while men can water baptize. As with the case with the eunuch where Phillip water baptized the eunuch per the great commission. Nowhere was any 'spirit baptism' ever commanded to anyone therefore cannot be obeyed as water baptism that has been commanded to all men.
4) the context shows that after Phillip water baptized the eunuch, the eunuch went on his way rejoicing for he was now saved having been water baptized.
a) nothing in the context says he was 'spirit baptized'. According to you, the eunuch went away lost having not been 'spirit baptized'. Why would Phillip and the Spprit allow him to leave lost?
b) why would the Spirit send for Phillip to water baptize the eunuch when the SPirit could have 'spirit baptized' the eunuch himself?
c) the great commission says Christians are made by teaching and baptizing which is what happened with the eunuch....he was taught and water baptized.
5) the conversion of the Gentiles in Acts 10 followed the great commission exactly just as with the eunuch. They were made Christians by being taught by Peter and commanded to be water baptized. Nothing in the context of Acts 10 or 11 says being baptized with the Holy Spirit is what saved those Gentiles. The eunuch was water baptized, NOT baptized with the HS but he was saved further proving baptism with the HS is NOT the one baptism of Eph 4:5, NOT the baptism of the great commission that makes disciples, NOT the baptism of Mk 16:16; Acts 2:38; Rom 6:3-6, 1 Pet 3:21 that saves
a) there is one gospel, one faith and just one way to be saved. Acts 15:11 Jews and Gentiles are saved in like manner way that by obeying the command to be water baptized Acts 2:38 for the Jews and Acts 10:47-48 for the Gentiles. The Jews in Acts 2 and the eunuch were not baptized with the HS eliminating that baptism as the one baptism of EPh 4:5 that saves, eliminating HS baptism as the baptism of the great commission that is administered by humans.
b) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: (Acts 2:41) This means those that rejected Pete's gospel words rejected being baptized. The logical implication then is being baptized is HOW one receives the gospel, rejecting being water baptism is rejecting the gospel. The Samaritans received the word of God by being water baptized (Acts 8:14). The same with the Gentiles in Acts 10 for Acts 11:1 says "And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God." HOW did the Gentiles receive the word of God? From Acts 2:41 they received the word of God exactly like the Jews by obeying God's command to be water baptized. Had those Gentiles rejected God's command to be water baptized then it cannot be in any said in any sense they 'received God's word"
c) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: (2 Thess 1:8) This verse clearly shows OBEDIENCE is the separating line between those saved and those lost in flaiming fire. Hence those Gentiles (as the Jews in Acts 2) had to "obey the gospel of Christ" to be saved. The gospel is the death burial & resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4). Per Rom 6 one must DOE to sin be BURIED and RAISED up from before one can walk in newness of life hence there is a death burial and resurrection taking place when one is water baptized. No such idea of a death burial and resurrection ever connected to some kind of 'spirit baptism'. The eunuch experienced a death burial and resurrection when he was water baptized. You would have the eunuch lost for not being 'spirit baptized'
d) Acts 10:35 the Gentiles would have to work righteousness in order to be accepted with God. Psa 119:172 all of God's commandments are righteousness hence God's command to be water baptized is righteousness therefore those Gentiles must obey God's command to be water baptized to work GOD'S righteousness to be accepted with God. Rejecting God's command to be water baptized IS rejecting God's word per Acts 2:41 and would be working UNrighteousness. Those Gentiles in Acts 10 or Jews in Acts 2 or the eunuch were command by God to be "spirit baptized''. Hence spirit baptism cannot be obeyed since it was never commanded to anyone, it is not how one works God's righteousness since God never commanded anyone to be spirit baptized.
Again, how can it ever be said by rejecting God's command to be water baptized one is receiving God's word? (Acts 11:1 cf 2:41). In NO SENSE can it be said that rejecting a command IS receiving that command. The fact God COMMANDED water baptism if for no other reason makes it essential to receiving God's word-receiving salvation-working God's righteousness. Not water baptized = not receiving God's word-rejecting salvation-working unrighteousness
Acts 11:1
And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. Will you try and argue the Gentiles could reject God's word in commanding them to be water baptized yet still received God's word anyway?
God has not commanded men to be 'spirit baptized' hence not being spirit baptized can never be said to be rejecting God's word. So even if those Gentiles had not been baptized with the HS they would have been saved anyway by obeying God's command to be water baptized, thereby be accepted by God by working God's righteousness (Acts 10:35) by obeying the gospel (2 Thess 1:8) and received the word of God (Acts 11:1).
Trying to have men saved apart from being water baptized, you then attempt to have men saved by REJECTING God's command to be water baptized, by working UNrighteousness, by not receiving God's word.
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MTMattie
Well-known member
I don't care. It is as simple as that. The Holy Spirit has filled me and that is all that matters.I was born again spiritually. Not from a water cult.
BTW, I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son , and Holy Spirit. I was not saved until the Holy Spirit filled me and unless you have had that experience I cannot even begin to explain it.
But what then say you about what Jesus said to Nick and expounded well on that.
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
8The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
PAY ATTENTION>>>> unless one is born of water and the Spirit
is followed by the next verse born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
It is the Spiritual rebirth that counts.
So you gonna jump on me again with " God has not commanded men to be 'spirit baptized'
I say Jesus did.. and seeing Jesus is God then God did too command it.
mailmandan
Well-known member
Amen! There is only one baptism that saves and places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.
Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and living water and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.
Amen! As Greek scholar AT Robertson said - a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.
Eternally-Grateful
Active member
as I said in another thread. and it fits here
sadly, Baptism is just an action word.
One is "placed into"
One is "immersed" (as apposed to dipped or "bapto")
One is overwhelmed (A ship is overwhelmed by waters during a storm and sinks, it is said to have been "baptizo"
One is overwhelmed by calamity or circumstances.
one is placed into union with another person (Israel was baptized into Moses)
In Jesus day, it was also what we call today a process of dyeing a fabric to make it a certain color. where the one who dyed was called a baptizer. the process was called a baptism. and the fabric was baptized into the dye.
I again re-iterate failing to interpret the word has caused mass confusion and alot of false doctrines
sadly, Baptism is just an action word.
One is "placed into"
One is "immersed" (as apposed to dipped or "bapto")
One is overwhelmed (A ship is overwhelmed by waters during a storm and sinks, it is said to have been "baptizo"
One is overwhelmed by calamity or circumstances.
one is placed into union with another person (Israel was baptized into Moses)
In Jesus day, it was also what we call today a process of dyeing a fabric to make it a certain color. where the one who dyed was called a baptizer. the process was called a baptism. and the fabric was baptized into the dye.
I again re-iterate failing to interpret the word has caused mass confusion and alot of false doctrines
Yes
The Holy Spirit exerts a real influence over us while water merely a symbolic one
Seabass
Active member
There are a few people who do care what the BIble says on the subject of salvation and water baptism instead of putting personal biases before what the Bible says.
God has commanded water baptism to all men, disciples are made by water baptism, disciples are to administer water baptism, Mt 28:19-20. God must have started a water cult according to you.
I could call faith onlyists a cult but just name calling does not prove anything. I show from the BIble where faith only is a corrupt invention of man whereby men try and change the Bible to fit that invention.
No verse teaches that baptism with the HS saves. No verse commands men to be baptized with the HS therefore that baptism cannot be obeyed. No verse teaches there is a death burial or resurrection with baptism with the HS therefore that baptism cannot be the way men OBEY the gospel of Christ per 2 Thess 1:8. The eunuch was not baptized with the HS but instead water baptized for God has chosen water baptism as the point He saves men. It is by human administered water baptism that disciples are made per the Great Commission.
Born of Spirit...the Spirit is the Agent. The Spirit has given man the Bible that teaches man about his lost, sinful condition. He teaches man about Christ who came to earth and sacrificed himself on the cross and shed His blood whereby men can have their sin washed away. The Holy Spirit teaches men in his word that it is in water baptism that the blood of Christ cleanses away sins
Born of water...shows water is the element that baptism takes place...... as with the eunuch.
Jn 3:5---------------Spirit ++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13--------Spirit +++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>>>> in the body
Tts 3:5------------Holy Spirit ++++++++ wash of regen. >>>> saved
Eph 5:26----------the word +++++++++ washing of water >>>> cleansed
Since the Bible does not contradict itself and there is but one way to be saved, no alternatives, then each of the above verses MUST express the exact same idea. The exact same thing these verses show is the Spirit and His word as the Agent that teaches men about salvation and that salvation is through baptism that has water as the element. Note again that the Spirit sent for Phillip to teach the eunuch and then the eunuch was water baptized per the great commission.
Jn 3:5 ------ born of water and of the Spirit >>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Mt 7:21-----doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Mt 18:3----- be converted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Again, since the Bible does not contradict itself and there is but one way to be saved/enter the kingdom then all three verses teach the same thing. God has commanded water baptism to men whereby men will be saved....hence the element is water (born of water). Since God has commanded water baptism, that command makes it essential to salvation if for no other reason and those who obediently submit to water baptism are then "doeth the will of the Father". Since teaching and baptizing is how disciples are made per great commission, then only those who have been taught and baptized are the ones who have been converted.
Acts 2:38---repent and be baptized >>>>>> remission of sins
Acts 3:19---repent and be converted >>>>> sins blotted out
Per Acts 2:41 not being baptized is rejecting the word...being baptized is how one receives the word of God thereby converted. Baptism with the HS does not fit any of this.....baptism with the HS is not being born of water, is not how one does the will of the Father, is not how one is converted, is not how one receives the word of God.
Therefore salvation/entering the kingdom is IMPOSSIBLE apart from water baptism, apart from doing the will of God, apart from being converted.
===============
Jn 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jesus is simply contrasting the physical birth (by flesh) from the new birth (by Spirit). The physical birth can only generate physical life and not salvation whereas the new birth can generate eternal life. "Born of the Spirit" shows the Spirit is the Agent that teaches men how to be saved from sin in water baptism where Christ's blood washes away sins. Since it is the Spirit's word that teaches men to be born again by being water baptized, thus men who obey by being water baptized are then said to be.... 'born again..by the word of God 1 Pet 1:23; 'begat by the word' James 1:18; 'begotten through the gospel' 1 Cor 4:15. Hence there can be no new birth APART from the word of God, which the Spirit gave to man, to instruct men on how to be saved by being water baptized. Being born again is not some supernatural event that God unconditional or randomly does for some men apart from the word of God being taught to men.
Born of the Spirit encompasses the Spirit indwelling and regeneration
The Father's promise
Ezekiel 36:26–27 (NASB95) — 26 “Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
John 14:16–17 (LEB) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, in order that he may be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it does not see him or know him. You know him, because he resides with you and will be in you.
concerns the indwelling
and the Baptism en the Spirit
This promise was fulfilled at Pentecost
Acts 2:33 (LEB) — 33 Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out this that you see and hear.
which is when the baptism en the Spirit first transpired
without the Spirit's baptism into the body you are not saved and do not belong to Christ
Romans 8:9 (LEB) — 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.
So water does not save
MTMattie
Well-known member
Then, you should be very thrilled that in eternity you will stand no chance of seeing me.
After all. I said I had a water baptism. I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But the knowing that one gets to definitively know that one is saved never happened until I had my spiritual rebirth and the Holy Spirit filled me.
Now, you have judged me as not saved. You have seen and judged me as not worthy. Evidently you believe if one is filled by the Holy Spirit after
one has their baptism that nullifies the baptism.
As of this moment you are Αγνοηθεί
Well then he must have a problem with
Acts 8:12–17 (LEB) — 12 But when they believed Philip as he was proclaiming the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were being baptized. 13 And Simon himself also believed, and after he was baptized he was keeping close company with Philip. And when he saw the signs and great miracles that were taking place, he was astonished. 14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. 16 (For he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then they placed their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
and
Acts 19:1–6 (LEB) — 1 And it happened that while Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the inland regions and came to Ephesus and found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “But we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit!” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into the baptism of John.” 4 And Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people that they should believe in the one who was to come after him—that is, in Jesus.” 5 And when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they began to speak in tongues and to prophesy.
Seabass
Active member
The Holy SPirit, the Comforter, was a promise only made to the Apostles, not a promise made to anyone today. While Jesus was still in the world with the Apostles, He was their Comforter. Yet Jesus knew he would soon leave to return back up to His Father and He would leave those APosltes with "another Comforter" (Jn 14:7,16).
The Comforter was the means by which those Apostles were inspired in what they spoke and wrote....
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (Jn 14:26). No one today has been given the Comforter thereby miraculously inspired as those Apostles. No one today is being inspirationally being taught directly by the HS nor inspirationally have all things to their remembrance.
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Eze 36:26
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
The 'bookend' verse for Eze 36:26 is found in Eze 18:31-32;
"Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."
In man's salvation there is an obvious synergy taking place where God 'gives' and man "makes" meaning Calvinism is deadly wrong in claiming salvation is monergistic where man has nothing to do in his own salvation, that salvation is 100% God where man sits doing nothing.
Eze 36:26 is an OT foreshadow of the coming of the Messiah with His NT gospel whereby men can have all their sins completely forgiven and be totally justified by being born again, something they did not have under the OT.
In Eze 36:26 when it says God will "give", the word 'give' is used in an idiomatic way expressing God's role in man's salvation and God's role in man's salvation was by giving man the gospel by which man can be saved (Rom 1:16). Without God graciously giving man the gospel, salvation, total justification would not be possible.
After Christ came with His NT gospel we have in Acts 2 the first recorded gospel sermon. The gospel was to first go to the Jews then to the Gentiles (Acts 13:46)
Note in Acts 2 that not ALL Jews were universally, unconditionally given a new heart and spirit but only those Jews who heard the gospel God GAVE them thru Peter and obeyed that gospel by being baptized were the only ones to receive a new heart and spirit. After commanding those Jews to be baptized for remission of sins, Peter told them to "save yourselves" which is equivalent to "make yourselves a new heart and spirit'. They could not save themselves by themselves apart from God. In order to save themselves, make themselves a new heart and spirit they had to take the gospel God 'gave" them and by being obedient to it by being baptized, in that sense they saved themselves/made themselves a new heart and spirit.
If you were drowning and I threw you a lifeline and yelled to you 'grab the lifeline and save yourself'. If you did as I instructed you can be saved but you did not save yourself by yourself. I had a role in your salvation for I "gave" you what you needed to be saved but it was up to you to save yourself by obeying my instructions in grabbing hold of the lif line. Likewise God "gave" the Jews the gospel they needed to be saved by but they had to take what God 'gave' them and obey it by being water baptized thus they saved themselves by their obedience to God's instructions in being water baptized.
The same is true for the Gentiles. In Psa 2:8 David prophecied that God would 'give' the heathen (Gentiles) to Christ as an inheritance. And in Acts 10 we have the first Gentile converts. Note in Acts 10 not all Gentiles were universally, unconditionally given a new heart and spirit. But only those Gentiles who heard the gospel God gave them thru Peter and obeyed it by being water baptized were the only ones to receive a new heart and spirit....exactly like the Jews in Acts 2 and exactly like men today get a get a new heart and spirit by hearing the gospel an obeying it by being water baptized.
There is no salvation for those in the first century as those in Corinth or for men today APART from hearing the gospel God has 'given" to man and man hearing this gospel God has given (Rom 10:17) and obeying it by being water baptized. The great commission has this gospel God "gave" being taught to men and men being water baptized by humans. No teaching and baptizing = no disciple made. No such thing as an untaught, unbaptized Christian. Nothing miraculous takes place by the HS in man's salvation where one is 'regenerated' by the HS. Again, no salvation APART from the great commission where men are taught the gospel as given to us in written form by the Spirit and man's obedience to that gospel (2 Thess 1:8) in being water baptized (a death, burial and resurrection per Rom 6)
You try and have men saved APART from the great commission, you create many contradictions in trying to replace water baptism with baptism with the HS, you have us think the eunuch went away lost for not having been baptized with the HS, etc, etc.
