brightfame52
Active Member
I already know what merciful means in Heb 8:12 and it denotes both propitiation and forgiveness of sins
Salvation is according to the will of God
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TibiasDad
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
According to Gods word, hows that
@Jim
I know you did not ~but, I must respectfully back out of this thread since I'm in battle in another thread with a couple of folks, one of which is so unreasonable and I cannot spend enough time here plus there plus starting another thread today that's almost ready to be started. Sorry. I'm reminded of what is written in Daniel 10:11-22~there's spiritual battles going on constantly in this world among the angelic host, and among God's children, and we as humans, are very limited as to how many battles we can fight at once, and do the job we need to do to the best of our God given abilities. I do not want to spread myself too thin, so I must return to the battle I'm now involved with.
TibiasDad
Active Member
God’s word agrees with Strong, and Strong agrees with God’s word! And I agree with both of them, so wherever two or three gather together and agree…
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
I agree with Gods word, it has the final authority.
TibiasDad
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
You just think you do lol However any reasonable soul can see that propitiation and forgiveness of sins are joined together in Heb 8:12
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
brightfame52
Active Member
Even being merciful/propitious to their unrighteousness denotes forgiveness of sins, what is unrighteousness but wickedness and sin 1 Jn 5 17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
TibiasDad
Active Member
Sure they are, one leads to another. Jesus’s sacrifice gives God the means to forgive us of our sins. God cannot forgive without the blood. God doesn’t not forgive sans our belief in his promises and our corresponding repentance from our sinful behavior.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
No doubt, but propitiation leads to forgiveness being possible, it does not forgive.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
You cant separate that which .is joined together Where God is propitiated He is merciful and forgiving of their sins and unrighteousness. So the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is covered by this blessing, in fact its the New Covenant world. So when unlearned folk state that 1 Jn 2:2 is all humanity its a false teaching, all mankind isnt covered by this New Covenant blessing.
If God intended 1 John 2:2 to not apply to the whole world He wouldn't have said the whole world. It is very clear that "our sins" refer to the sins of the believers. Therefore, the statement "not only for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world" can only mean every last person who has or ever will live. It cannot be rationally argued to mean anything else. To not accept what John actually said is to reject the word of God as He spoke it through John by the power of the Holy Spirit. Your interpretation is a blatant example of eisegesis.
civic
Active Member
Amen to the truth !!!
civic
Active Member
And we know that the world in 1 John is everyone against God.
These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception.
Thayers
Cosmos: the inhabitants of the
5. world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17.
6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5; λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου
b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.
You must be careful with any dictionary of Biblical Greek and Hebrew as you must be careful of any translation from the Greek and Hebrew. Dictionaries, just like translations can exhibit the theological biases of the authors. It like Strong's dictionaries, but it is not above some biases. Dictionaries like translations should be compared in any discussions where the meaning of scripture is being studied.
brightfame52
Active Member
The whole world is Gods elect Israel from not only jews but from the gentiles. John was writing his Jewish congregation in this epistle, so he reminded them that the New Covenant sacrifice did cover the whole world of men, not just jews.
This has been explained to you probably hundreds of times, its getting old. Common reason would give to understand that all mankind individually cant be meant, since many are unforgiven, God showed them no mercy, and they are condemned for their sins duh
civic
Active Member
Nope I just refuted you with 3 Greek lexicons and John’s usage of world in his epistle.
Next fallacy
Yes and you and anyone else who has explained it to me are flat out wrong. Common sense would understand that God is not the evil ogre you make Him out to be.
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