civic
Well-known member
thanks for admitting it was not in the text, that's a start.
Redeemed from unbelief !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Well-known member
See before redemption men are in the prison of darkness and unbelief. So if any believes its an evidence of having been redeemed from all iniquity.
Forgiveness of sins comes from redemption so the redeemed shall receive the knowledge of it to believe Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
One cannot receive and believe something unless it exists already. Redemption pays the ransom price that demands the release from the prison of unbelief. So the redeemed evidences their prison release by believing.
Sorry remission of sin requires one first believe
Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
brightfame52
Well-known member
One has to be redeemed from the prison house of unbelief. Thats why is said of Jesus says this about the prisoners
Isa 42:7
To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Gill says and I agree on this scripture
To open the blind eyes,.... Of the idolatrous Gentiles, who were spiritually blind, and knew not the wretchedness of their case; the exceeding sinfulness of sin; their need of a Saviour, and who he was; as they did, when their eyes were opened by means of the Gospel sent among them, through the energy of the divine Spirit; for this is a work of almighty power and efficacious grace:
to bring out the prisoners from the prison; who were concluded in sin, shut up in unbelief, and under the law, the captives of Satan, and held fast prisoners by him and their own lusts, under the dominion of which they were:
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
I guess that the kind that is perceived by us, limited creatures, as free will.
From our day-to-day perspective, which is limited by space-time, we make choices. So, whenever the Scriptures present humans as free agents, they are saying the truth.
On a broader perspective, our free will is a small bubble within the ocean of God's will and sovereignty. In God we exist and move, as Paul told the people from Athens. So, whenever the Scriptures present God as choosing us from the beginning of time, they also say the truth.
Sounds like double talk. Can a will that is determined be free?
You have not dealt with the truth of scripture
One must first believe before he may be forgiven
Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You still cannot see it, but man naturally in his adamic nature is imprisoned in unbelief/disobedience, in order to believe he must be redeemed from that prison! Christ does that for them He died for.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
It does sound like double talk and it is double talk.
Free will is a huge philosophical problem that, I guess, surpasses the reasoning capacities of most of us in this Forum.
Since God is All Powerful and could stop anything from happening, His will is always operating in the universe.
For example: Why are we having this discussion, TomL? Because you and I decided to do it, or because God decided to do it, and we are His instruments for something else to happen?
Well, I think it goes both ways. How exactly? I don't know.
I like to think that our free will operates in a microenvironment (tiny space-very short time) but is pushed in the big picture by God's will, which is eternal and unstoppable.
Um it is the idea a free will can be a will which was determined
If a will is determined it is not free to choose in any way but the way it was determined to choose
that is not free
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Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
I agree.
Just to share a bit of my faith, in Baha'is Sacred Writings one of the Titles of God is "The Free".
Only God is Truly Free. He is not determined by anything or anyone.
We as his creatures are endowed with limited freedom. That's the only thing we know and we call it "free will". It exists, of course. It is something. But probably not what we think it is.
It shouldn't be surprising if we consider, for example, the case of babies and little children.
Do babies have free will? Do little children have free will? What kind of free will? When could you say that a child has grown enough as to be considered having free will and being able to commit sin?
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
There is a baha'i thread in the Forum in the subforum of World Religions.
I saw it but have not read it yet
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Remission of sin requires to believe that our sins can be forgiven.
There are people around us who live a bittered life, blaming themselves, in constant fear and sadness, because they don't believe they can be forgiven (ie, spiritually healed).
When Jesus healed people, He required them to believe... but to believe what?
In his preexistence, atonement, resurrection, Second Coming? In Sola Scriptura, baptism, Sunday keeping, the Holy Spirit?
No.
They needed to believe that, if they were blind, they could see again. If they were crippled, they could walk again. If they were afraid or hated or dead inside, they could find peace, and love, and eternal life.
This is the faith the Gospel is all about.
Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
That's right.
Believeth Him means to follow his teachings. To do what He asks us to do.
Dear Tom, Dear readers:
False Messiah were common in the time of Jesus. People who believed false messiahs did wrong things... like revolting against the Romans... and when they did it, they met destruction. Following the wrong messiah could bring destruction to the whole Israel, indeed.
So it was important for Jesus and his disciples to tell people they should believe in Jesus as the true Messiah, so that they could do the right things (eg repent, be forgiven, and be born again as citizens of the Kingdom of God).
Many Evangelical pastors preach that believing in Jesus means believing certain dogmas about Jesus. This is so convenient for them, because they can retain control over the souls and pocket$ of their congregations.
"If you adhere to the creed of this church, and reject the creed of that competing church, then you believe in Jesus... and if you believe in Jesus, you are saved".
This, for the most part, is a lie. Those pastors don't know what faith in Jesus is all about.
I personally have not seen that
Many Evangelical pastors preach that believing in Jesus means believing certain dogmas about Jesus. This is so convenient for them, because they can retain control over the souls and pocket$ of their congregations.
"If you adhere to the creed of this church, and reject the creed of that competing church, then you believe in Jesus... and if you believe in Jesus, you are saved".
preached in churches I have attended
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Your perspective must be better and closer to reality than mine, since you have first-hand experience.
So I apologize to you and our readers for not being prudent and thoughtful in my statement.
OK but that is my experience and not to say it does not happen
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