Redeemed from unbelief !

[Pancho Frijoles]

@Pancho Frijoles



Thats regeneration, a new creation, everyone Christ redeems is created new, then they repent and believe. However prior to that, man is totally depraved and cant repent, cant believe, his old nature wont allow that.

How do you explain that Jesus put a child in the midst and ask people to be like that child, if such child is "totally depraved"?
Jesus did more than that. Jesus declared them to be heirs of the Kingdom of God, and to live daily in the presence of God (he used the metaphor of "their angels", as it was believed that each person had an angel that connected the person with the divinity).

I'm not saying that children can redeem themselves. I am saying they need no redemption. Otherwise Jesus would have called them to repent.
(They need God to survive, of course, just as animals and plant need God)
As true as the fact that they will lean to sin as they grow, is the fact that they will also reach out to God, somehow, to find Him.

So, let's take the example of a 5-years-old girl in ancient Athens.
She was a a citizen of the Kingdom of God. Then, as she grew, she started realizing she did wrong choices. She started to feel bad about those choices and look for a way out. The spiritual need of redemption was there, in her heart, implanted by God.

Paul told the pagan people from Athens:

And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’

Please note how, by saying "we", "us" Paul counts himself among the Pagan Athenians who search for God. Paul counts himself among those who are the offspring from God and not too distant from God. He emphasizes that we all come from "one blood". Paul does not look humanity in terms of "the elect" vs "the non-elect". Paul is preaching to all those Pagans, making them realize all humans have the same origin, need, and call.

 

[brightfame52]

How do you explain that Jesus put a child in the midst and ask people to be like that child, if such child is "totally depraved"?
Jesus did more than that. Jesus declared them to be heirs of the Kingdom of God, and to live daily in the presence of God (he used the metaphor of "their angels", as it was believed that each person had an angel that connected the person with the divinity).

I'm not saying that children can redeem themselves. I am saying they need no redemption. Otherwise Jesus would have called them to repent.
(They need God to survive, of course, just as animals and plant need God)
As true as the fact that they will lean to sin as they grow, is the fact that they will also reach out to God, somehow, to find Him.

So, let's take the example of a 5-years-old girl in ancient Athens.
She was a a citizen of the Kingdom of God. Then, as she grew, she started realizing she did wrong choices. She started to feel bad about those choices and look for a way out. The spiritual need of redemption was there, in her heart, implanted by God.

Paul told the pagan people from Athens:

And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’

Please note how, by saying "we", "us" Paul counts himself among the Pagan Athenians who search for God. Paul counts himself among those who are the offspring from God and not too distant from God. He emphasizes that we all come from "one blood". Paul does not look humanity in terms of "the elect" vs "the non-elect". Paul is preaching to all those Pagans, making them realize all humans have the same origin, need, and call.

He means a new born again person, new babe with a new nature, its a simile 1 Pet 2:2

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: The word babes brephos can also be:

1. an unborn child, embryo, a foetus
2. a new-born child, an infant, a babe

In fact its the same word Jesus used here Lk 18:15

And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.

 

[brightfame52]

In order to become a believer in Christ,obedience to the Faith, we need to be redeemed and given a new nature,because by nature from a spiritual and practical standpoint we are children of disobedience or unbelief Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The word disobedience In Vs 2 is the greek word ἀπείθεια:

1. obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will,disobedience, unbelief.

Its translated unbelief here Rom 11:30,32

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Heb 4:6

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief

Folks thats our nature as unregenerate we are people without faith Deut 32:20

20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

In other words, children of disobedience !

Thats why we need a new nature to become believers or obedient, this the Spirit creates in us in His sanctiying,regenerating work 1 Pet 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied

That word for obedience, though a different word hypakoē,nevertheless its used for obedience to faith Rom15:18

For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Rom 16 26

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

So the Spirit produces that obedience,to the Glory of God !

 

[civic]

@Pancho Frijoles



Thats regeneration, a new creation, everyone Christ redeems is created new, then they repent and believe. However prior to that, man is totally depraved and cant repent, cant believe, his old nature wont allow that.

cart before the horse- salvation, the new birth comes after one hears, believes/receives the gospel.

 

[MTMattie]

@Pancho Frijoles



Thats regeneration, a new creation, everyone Christ redeems is created new, then they repent and believe. However prior to that, man is totally depraved and cant repent, cant believe, his old nature wont allow that.

How does Christ decide who to redeem? And what gives that person the idea that they have been redeemed, so they then can know all about who it was that shed their blood for them and why?

and is it time to post all of the mistakes Paul has made in his vatious Books... such as

In Romans, Paul writes, (ROMANS 10:9–10“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

See.... Paul has it backwards.... How can anyone believe anything he ever said??????????????????????????????????????/

 

[brightfame52]

cart before the horse- salvation, the new birth comes after one hears, believes/receives the gospel.

Men by nature, we are unbelievers, children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Obedience/Faith comes from a New Nature friend

 

[brightfame52]

@MTMattie

How does Christ decide who to redeem?

The Fathers Election of a people inHim before the foundation Eph 1:4,7

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[brightfame52]

"Purge your conscience from dead works." This is one of the effects produced by Christ’s sacrifice, an effect which the legal ordinances were incapable of securing. Because Christ’s sacrifice has expiated our sins, when the Spirit applies its virtues to the heart, that is, when He gives faith to appropriate them, our sense of guilt is removed,peace is communicated, and we are enabled to approach God notonly without dread, but as joyous worshippers. The "conscience" is here specially singled out (cf. Hebrews 10:22 for the larger meaning)because it is the proper seat of the guilt of sin, charging it on the soul, and hindering an approach unto God. By "dead works" are meant our sins as unto their guilt and defilement—cf. our comments on Hebrews 6:1. True believers are delivered from the curse of the law, which is death. "To serve the living God," not simply in outward form but in sincerity and in truth. This is the advantage and blessing which we receive from our conscience being purged. Christians have both the right and the liberty to "serve God." The "living God" cannot be served by those who are dead in sins, and therefore alienated from Him. But the sacrifice of Christ has purchased the gift of the Spirit unto all for whom He died, and the Spirit renews and equips the saint for acceptable worship. "This is the end of our purgation:

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/pink/An%20Exposition%20of%20Hebrews%20-%20A.%20W.%20Pink.pdf

 

[brightfame52]

The redemptive death of Christ makes us spiritually fit to serve God, Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

This corresponds with Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Now all these presupposes deliverance/redemption from unbelief in order to effect serving God by faith

 

[brightfame52]

Other scriptures that indicate that Christs Death redeems from unbelief, 1 Pet 1:18-19'2:9

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1st to be redeemed from vain conversation is to be redeemed from false religion, which entails now being believing the truth, then in vs 9 of chapter 2 Peter says this :

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

To be called out of darkness to the His Marvelous light is equivalent to being called out of the spiritual darkness of unbelief, into the Glorious light of the Gospel 2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Matt Poole writes:

Out of darkness; the darkness of ignorance, unbelief, sin, and misery. The time before the publication of the gospel, was a time of darkness, Matthew 9:16 Luke 1:79.

Into his marvellous light; the light of knowledge, faith, holiness, comfort: see Ephesians 5:8. It is called marvellous, because men see what they never saw before, wonderful things out of God’s law, Psalm 119:18; and because it is a marvellous thing, that they who sat in so gross darkness should be translated into so glorious a light.

 

[brightfame52]

Everyone Christ died for and redeemed, they will receive the work of the Spirit sooner or later according to Gods timing Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So thats why all for whom He died are redeemed from unbelief, because they are regenerated by the Spirit, given the gift faith and revealed to be the sons of God Gal 3:26

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

Redeemed from unbelief because Jesus by His redeeming death destroyed the works of the devil, which one of his works is seclude men in unbelief ! 1 Jn 3:8

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world [satan]hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Lk 8:11-12

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

So if we teach that some for whom Christ died shall remain in unbelief and not be saved, we are teaching that the devil, satan was victorious over Christs redeeming death and His death didn't destroy his works over them

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

So if we teach that some for whom Christ died shall remain in unbelief and not be saved, we are teaching that the devil, satan was victorious over Christs redeeming death and His death didn't destroy his works over them

You are correct.
That's why I don't teach a victorious Satan, but a victorious God, who will be "all in all" (1 Cor 15:28)

If millions of people will keep hating God forever and ever, while in hell, then God was not victorious, as it would mean that God didn't have the capacity to carry out his sovereign will. What is his will?
The will John Calvin couldn't figure out in his time, but that certainly he knows by now: that God WANTS all men to repent.