propitiation
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Active Member
He is the propitiation for our sins:
Now the word propitiation equates to Justice satisfied; Gods wrath having been appeased by Jesus Christ the righteous, and not by ones act of believing or Faith, Christ's Blood propitiated God, and nothing else, lest we believe heresy. Therefore the whole world in 1 Jn 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
This whole world has been reconciled to God Heb 2:17
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The word reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai
hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin") – properly, to extend propitiation, showing mercy by satisfying (literally, propitiating) the wrath of God on sin; "to conciliate, appease, propitiate
Its in the same family of words propitiation 1 Jn 2:2 is.
And those God has promised to be merciful to their what ? Heb 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
The word merciful here is the word ἵλεως in the same family of words as above and means:
(an adjective, used back in Attic Greek about appeasing divine wrath) – properly, propitious, describing God's covenant-mercy
God has promised to be propitious to the sins, of His elect, based upon the blood and mediation of Christ the righteous Heb 8:6
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Now naturally men think that this New Covenant Promise of propitiation belongs to only ethnic jews, but thats wrong, and thats why there is the emphasis in 1 Jn 2:2 that it applies to the whole world, all ethnicities of Gods elect
It also applies to all Gods sheep in all stages of world history.
Now does it apply to sinners under Gods wrath ? Jn 3:36
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
No it doesnt, it cant, that would contradict what propitiation means:
hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin")
appeasing divine wrath
Folk, Gods wrath isn't and cant be appeased for sinners His wrath abideth on !
Now the word propitiation equates to Justice satisfied; Gods wrath having been appeased by Jesus Christ the righteous, and not by ones act of believing or Faith, Christ's Blood propitiated God, and nothing else, lest we believe heresy. Therefore the whole world in 1 Jn 2:2
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
This whole world has been reconciled to God Heb 2:17
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The word reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai
hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin") – properly, to extend propitiation, showing mercy by satisfying (literally, propitiating) the wrath of God on sin; "to conciliate, appease, propitiate
Its in the same family of words propitiation 1 Jn 2:2 is.
And those God has promised to be merciful to their what ? Heb 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
The word merciful here is the word ἵλεως in the same family of words as above and means:
(an adjective, used back in Attic Greek about appeasing divine wrath) – properly, propitious, describing God's covenant-mercy
God has promised to be propitious to the sins, of His elect, based upon the blood and mediation of Christ the righteous Heb 8:6
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Now naturally men think that this New Covenant Promise of propitiation belongs to only ethnic jews, but thats wrong, and thats why there is the emphasis in 1 Jn 2:2 that it applies to the whole world, all ethnicities of Gods elect
It also applies to all Gods sheep in all stages of world history.
Now does it apply to sinners under Gods wrath ? Jn 3:36
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
No it doesnt, it cant, that would contradict what propitiation means:
hiláskomai (akin to 2434 /hilasmós, "propitiation, appeasement/satisfaction of divine wrath on sin")
appeasing divine wrath
Folk, Gods wrath isn't and cant be appeased for sinners His wrath abideth on !
TibiasDad
Active Member
Okay…Have I said anything contrary to this?agreed,now, to intergrade another topic...... BAPTISM, which shows our DEATH so that we can be resurrected, (made alive) into new creations, that we can be married to another, (Christ), his bride.
101G.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
The Whole World of 1 Jn 2:2 is a Justified World, made so by Christs propitiation for their sins. Now God acts in mercy in regards to their sins, He will be merciful to their unrighteousness Heb 8:12
12 For I will be merciful[propitious] to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Their unrighteousness covers a multitude of sins, their unbelief ! The word unrighteousness here is also translated iniquity:
Like here in Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity
Its the same word unrighteousness found here in Rom 1:18 twice
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
So those who are of the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2, God because of Christ hath promised to be merciful unto their unrighteousness, that includes their pre and post conversion life !
12 For I will be merciful[propitious] to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Their unrighteousness covers a multitude of sins, their unbelief ! The word unrighteousness here is also translated iniquity:
Like here in Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity
Its the same word unrighteousness found here in Rom 1:18 twice
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
So those who are of the whole world of 1 Jn 2:2, God because of Christ hath promised to be merciful unto their unrighteousness, that includes their pre and post conversion life !
brightfame52
Active Member
The whole World of 1 Jn 2:2 simply because Christs is the propitiation of it, its a saved world, its a whole world saved from the wrath of God 1 Thess 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For this world, Gods Wrath has been forever appeased by the Blood of Christ !
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For this world, Gods Wrath has been forever appeased by the Blood of Christ !
TibiasDad
Active Member
Propitiating, as you have previously clearly stated, effects a heavenly result, namely, that God has been reconciled to the world, and thus, grace can be extended to it.
Propitiating is the means whereby salvation is now possible. No one is “saved” at the point of propitiation, but they now can be saved, if they believe!
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
The whole World of 1 Jn 2:2 is saved simply because Christs is the propitiation of it, its a saved world, its a whole world saved from the wrath of God
TibiasDad
Active Member
Propitiating does not mean saving. It makes salvation possible but not completely accomplished. Belief in the work of Christ completes the work of propitiation.
Doug
civic
Active Member
Yep
brightfame52
Active Member
False teaching, aint nothing about possible, thats from your mind, Christ is present tense the Propitation of the whole world, the saved whole world, saved from wrath. There isnt a time He isnt their satisfaction before Gods Throne, being their legal representative. You know what an advocate is ?
civic
Active Member
Propitiating provides atonement for those who believe and receive the gospel of Christ and then and only then is provision applied to those who by faith trust in Christ alone for their salvation.
brightfame52
Active Member
Propitiation is salvation for them Christ died for. They are delivered from wrath . All folk arent delivered from wrath, Christ isnt their propitiation. Like Job was very aware of Job 2130
That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.
This Day here Rev 6 16-17
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
You think He is their propitiation ?
TibiasDad
Active Member
1) It says “the sins of the whole world”, not “the saved of the whole world”: Do not add to the scripture.
2) He is the advocate of the believer who happens to sin. The believer’s sin is that for which Christ died, and not only his sin but for the sin of “the whole world”, that is everybody in the whole world who sins.
3) Belief is unnecessary if we are “saved” at the point of propitiation. We are all condemned until we confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God has raised him from the dead.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah it says sins of whole world, since when did that say possible
civic
Active Member
Amen
TibiasDad
Active Member
Good, now stop saying “the sins of the saved of the whole world”.
Propitiation doesn’t save anyone by itself! It only makes salvation possible! If one must travel five miles to reach a destination, completion of the first mile doesn’t mean you’ve reached the end yet. Propitiating is only the first step, so to speak, that allows salvation to be possible. You can’t be saved without it! But the rest of the journey needs to be completed before one is saved.
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
The ones for whom Christ was/is their propitiation, He has actually by that taken away their sins ! 1 Jn 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1 Jn 4:10
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
So the whole World of 1 Jn 2:2 is a whole world without sin ! Cp Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Where there is no sin, there's no need for wrath, hence there's no wrath for the propitiated world of 1 Jn 2:2 !
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1 Jn 4:10
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
So the whole World of 1 Jn 2:2 is a whole world without sin ! Cp Jn 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Where there is no sin, there's no need for wrath, hence there's no wrath for the propitiated world of 1 Jn 2:2 !
TibiasDad
Active Member
Nothing happens until we believe! If nothing happens, it is because of unbelief. John 3:16-18, Rom 10:9-10, 11:19-24, Acts 2:38, Heb 10:19-23
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
@TibiasDad
Thats false and totally disregards the Covenant Suretyship engagements with the Father. The Father is satisfied and pleased with His Sons sacrifice in taking away the sins of His People. You are saying Gods Justice isnt propitiated until the sinner believes, his action
Thats false and totally disregards the Covenant Suretyship engagements with the Father. The Father is satisfied and pleased with His Sons sacrifice in taking away the sins of His People. You are saying Gods Justice isnt propitiated until the sinner believes, his action
TibiasDad
Active Member
No I am not saying that at all; I am saying that propitiating is the divine and first part of the equation. It, in itself, does not actually save anyone. Belief in what God has done on our behalf brings the work of propitiation to its fulfillment. It is not effectual until belief, thus Peter’s words in Acts 2; “Repent and be baptized and you will be saved..” Repentance and being baptized is a demonstration of belief.
Doug
