propitiation

[brightfame52]

I am not prone to use to use the “H” word, but this is heretical teaching. “…(T)hat whosoever believes in him might not perish but have everlasting life” establishes the undeniable cornerstone of the gospel that belief in Christ is the foundational principle of the gospel, and the fundamental distinction of those who are saved and unsaved. If you are a believing person, you are saved; if not, you’re not! Propitiation prepares the way for belief, for without it, there is nothing to believe in; but believing is the key to the door of salvation!

Doug

The world of 1 Jn 2:2 when each of them are born into this world as vile sinners, Christ is their propitiation, God is at peace with them. They are not born believers.

 

[brightfame52]

You forgot verse 7.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

No I didnt forget it

 

[TibiasDad]

The world of 1 Jn 2:2 when each of them are born into this world as vile sinners, Christ is their propitiation, God is at peace with them. They are not born believers.

Then they are not born saved. The only sense that your opinion is true is with regard to God’s omniscience, by which he knows who will ultimately be saved. But this does not mean that God predestined them from the beginning to be what they are.

Propitiation is for all the world’s sin; whether we believe in it for our sin is our burden. Propitiation gives us something to believe in.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Then they are not born saved. The only sense that your opinion is true is with regard to God’s omniscience, by which he knows who will ultimately be saved. But this does not mean that God predestined them from the beginning to be what they are.

Propitiation is for all the world’s sin; whether we believe in it for our sin is our burden. Propitiation gives us something to believe in.

Doug

Yes born saved from the penalty of sin

 

[JLB]

No I didnt forget it

Ok. So you willingly did not post it then. That does make more sense.

It shows that Paul was exhorting them not to be partakers with the sons of disobedience in the wrath of God.


Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

 

[brightfame52]

Ok. So you willingly did not post it then. That does make more sense.

It shows that Paul was exhorting them not to be partakers with the sons of disobedience in the wrath of God.


Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

I didnt see the need to post it, I posted what I wanted to post. Since when do I need your input and approval to post ?

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes born saved from the penalty of sin

All men are able to be saved because of propitiation, only men who die believing in Christ are actually saved.

John 8:31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

Col :122But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.

Rom 11:22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

I didnt see the need to post it, I posted what I wanted to post. Since when do I need your input and approval to post ?

All men are able to be saved because of propitiation, only men who die believing in Christ are actually saved.

John 8:31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

Col :122But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.

Rom 11:22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.


Doug

False, propitiation is salvation from the wrath of God. Every sinner coming out of the womb of their mother, as wicked and ungodly they are, if Christ is their propitiation, and He is if He died for them, they have no penalty of sin against them, God is at peace with them.

 

[TibiasDad]

False, propitiation is salvation from the wrath of God. Every sinner coming out of the womb of their mother, as wicked and ungodly they are, if Christ is their propitiation, and He is if He died for them, they have no penalty of sin against them, God is at peace with them.

Wrong again!

Rom 3:23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

For the sins of the brethren He is propitiation 1 Jn 4:7-11

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

So propitiation is for spiritual believers or those who shall be believers from all nations.

 

[brightfame52]

Wrong again!

Rom 3:23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Doug

It can never be wrong, its a abiding fact, Christ is the propitiation for them He died for, 1 Jn 2:2 So no one in the whole entire world of 1 Jn 2:2 is under Gods wrath and never will be, because Christ is always and forver their propitation.

 

[TibiasDad]

It can never be wrong, its a abiding fact, Christ is the propitiation for them He died for, 1 Jn 2:2 So no one in the whole entire world of 1 Jn 2:2 is under Gods wrath and never will be, because Christ is always and forver their propitation.

He died for all who have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

It can never be wrong, its a abiding fact, Christ is the propitiation for them He died for, 1 Jn 2:2 So no one in the whole entire world of 1 Jn 2:2 is under Gods wrath and never will be, because Christ is always and forver their propitation.

Eisegesis!

Rom 3:23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.

The same “all” who have sinned, are the same “all” that are justified. The work has been done; the only question is ‘do we believe it?’

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

He died for all who have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Doug

No He died for all who He is a propitiation for, and not any of them are ever under Gods wrath. Propitiation. The word is in 1 Jn 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world,

its in the present tense indicative, its a continual state of action. As long as He is their propitation, mercyseat, God in Justice to Christ, cannot have wrath against them

So anyone under Gods wrath, its impossible for them to be part of the world of 1 Jn 2:2

 

[TibiasDad]

No He died for all who He is a propitiation for, and not any of them are ever under Gods wrath. Propitiation. The word is in 1 Jn 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world,

its in the present tense indicative, its a continual state of action. As long as He is their propitation, mercyseat, God in Justice to Christ, cannot have wrath against them

So anyone under Gods wrath, its impossible for them to be part of the world of 1 Jn 2:2

Point of clarification: the present indicative is only true for the present moment of time. It say nothing about the future. But since we are always in the present moment of time, he is always the propitiation for our sins.

This said, the importance of tense is overshadowed by the focus of the propitiating action. It is for “our sins”- meaning those who are already believers- but not just for “our sins” but also for “the sins of the whole world”- including those who have not yet believed and potentially might never believe.

There is an arrogance that is squashed by this verse, for Christ’s work is done equally for all. I am not more special than anyone else who has yet to believe; we are all the same in Christ’s eyes. All unworthy; all undeserving; yet all equally provided for by grace. Again, the only question is whether we believe!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Point of clarification: the present indicative is only true for the present moment of time. It say nothing about the future. But since we are always in the present moment of time, he is always the propitiation for our sins.

This said, the importance of tense is overshadowed by the focus of the propitiating action. It is for “our sins”- meaning those who are already believers- but not just for “our sins” but also for “the sins of the whole world”- including those who have not yet believed and potentially might never believe.

There is an arrogance that is squashed by this verse, for Christ’s work is done equally for all. I am not more special than anyone else who has yet to believe; we are all the same in Christ’s eyes. All unworthy; all undeserving; yet all equally provided for by grace. Again, the only question is whether we believe!

Doug

If Christ is your propitiation as with the whole world here 1 Jn 2:2 God is at peace with you. No wrath

 

[TibiasDad]

If Christ is your propitiation as with the whole world here 1 Jn 2:2 God is at peace with you. No wrath

For God to be able to “love the world”, he must have had the means whereby to be “at peace” with the world.

His wrath is for those who refuse to accept his love for them, that he came to the world with “peace and goodwill for all men, on whom his favor rests”!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

For God to be able to “love the world”, he must have had the means whereby to be “at peace” with the world.

His wrath is for those who refuse to accept his love for them, that he came to the world with “peace and goodwill for all men, on whom his favor rests”!

Doug

If Christ is your propitiation as with the whole world here 1 Jn 2:2 God is at peace with you. No wrath

 

[TibiasDad]

If Christ is your propitiation as with the whole world here 1 Jn 2:2 God is at peace with you. No wrath

Wrath is not shown until judgement day. In this life, all God’s actions are motivated by his love for man and his desire to redeem them. Hell is the wrath of God, created for the devil and his angels, not for mankind!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Wrath is not shown until judgement day. In this life, all God’s actions are motivated by his love for man and his desire to redeem them. Hell is the wrath of God, created for the devil and his angels, not for mankind!

Doug

False many are presently under the wrath of God! John 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

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