101G
Well-known member
No haven't read all the posts, but in 1 Corinthians 15:27 there is ONLY "ONE PERSON" there.
101G.
One God
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
- Start date
101G.
Wrangler
Well-known member
The many do not mean 3.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It does not exclude "3".
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Okay.
Wrangler
Well-known member
That comforts you, that many does not exclude 3 rather than does not mean 3? Oy vey!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You're the one that said it excludes. It does not.
Wrangler
Well-known member
No. I did NOT say it excludes it. I said the many does not mean 3.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Geesh...
I have more than one brain cell. I can work this argument to its end without your continued evolvement.....
You were trying to exclude the possibility of "3". I never said it equaled "3" to start with.
Wrangler
Well-known member
What a low bar you use to support your doctrine in comparison to no standard to reject it. There is only true God, Jesus' God, whose name is YHWH - who we relate to as Father. This is not an argument but explicit Scripture.
The silliness of "many" not excluding 3 shows an intellectual bias not contained in explicit Scripture.
101G
Well-known member
@Wrangler, and @praise_yeshua. Let's breakdown the verse in question.
1 Corinthians 15:27 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all". this is the short version, and to the point.
SUBJECT: G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) v. According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English. this word is used as a verb, and not a noun. (that will alert one quickly). as a verb one can quickly see, or understand what subject means here in context.
a. put within, b. will. let's look at both and understand this revelation.
according to the second definition of subject in the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary as a verb, it means 2. To put under or within the power of. (Please look this up. there is our revelation, “within”, yes, within the power of). lets back this up with our second understanding. G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) as a verb which means 1. to subordinate
2. (reflexively) to obey
[from G5259 and G5021]
KJV: be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
please notice, the KJV can translate subject, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, as be under obedience, which bring us to our second understanding, "WILL". let's see this in scripture, Matthew 26:42 " He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done”. now here is the revelation. the Lord Jesus is God “OWN” arm. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. so being his “OWN” arm it is through, or “within” the agency of the Lord Jesus Christ that his, (GOD), OWN “will” is done, hence the obedience. this is proven out in the definition of G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso itself. the definition also states from G5259 and G5021, lets see what G5259 ὑπό hupo (hoop-oh') states,
1. under
2. (with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through)
(with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)) In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.
[a primary preposition]
KJV: among, by, from, in, of, under, with
examine definition #2 above carefully, it said, when used as a verb. there is our conformation, the agency or means, "through”. and “through” is synonyms with “WITHIN”. so when G5259 is use in VERB form, meaning with a verb as in “BE” subject as here in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 then it is understood to be used as the “agency or means, through”. other words Isaiah 63:5 is totally correct and on point when God said, " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. the power is in, or within God “own” arm, which the Lord is, “God’s own arm.
that’s all that is needed, the Holy Spirit, (the Revelator) and an old English dictionary like the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary. the Holy Spirit will enable us, or give us the ability to root out words and their meaning to understand the old English language used at that time when the bible was written.
so, in 1 Corinthians 15:27, it's the same one Person who is the "Subject"/the Spirit/the Father, and the "Object'/the spirit/the Son, who is "WITHIN" one another in the ECHAD.
101G.
1 Corinthians 15:27 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all". this is the short version, and to the point.
SUBJECT: G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) v. According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English. this word is used as a verb, and not a noun. (that will alert one quickly). as a verb one can quickly see, or understand what subject means here in context.
a. put within, b. will. let's look at both and understand this revelation.
according to the second definition of subject in the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary as a verb, it means 2. To put under or within the power of. (Please look this up. there is our revelation, “within”, yes, within the power of). lets back this up with our second understanding. G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) as a verb which means 1. to subordinate
2. (reflexively) to obey
[from G5259 and G5021]
KJV: be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
please notice, the KJV can translate subject, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, as be under obedience, which bring us to our second understanding, "WILL". let's see this in scripture, Matthew 26:42 " He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done”. now here is the revelation. the Lord Jesus is God “OWN” arm. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. so being his “OWN” arm it is through, or “within” the agency of the Lord Jesus Christ that his, (GOD), OWN “will” is done, hence the obedience. this is proven out in the definition of G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso itself. the definition also states from G5259 and G5021, lets see what G5259 ὑπό hupo (hoop-oh') states,
1. under
2. (with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through)
(with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)) In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.
[a primary preposition]
KJV: among, by, from, in, of, under, with
examine definition #2 above carefully, it said, when used as a verb. there is our conformation, the agency or means, "through”. and “through” is synonyms with “WITHIN”. so when G5259 is use in VERB form, meaning with a verb as in “BE” subject as here in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 then it is understood to be used as the “agency or means, through”. other words Isaiah 63:5 is totally correct and on point when God said, " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. the power is in, or within God “own” arm, which the Lord is, “God’s own arm.
that’s all that is needed, the Holy Spirit, (the Revelator) and an old English dictionary like the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary. the Holy Spirit will enable us, or give us the ability to root out words and their meaning to understand the old English language used at that time when the bible was written.
so, in 1 Corinthians 15:27, it's the same one Person who is the "Subject"/the Spirit/the Father, and the "Object'/the spirit/the Son, who is "WITHIN" one another in the ECHAD.
101G.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Many is indeterminate. It is certainly more than 1. That is your issue. Not my issue. You are the one that is bias.
Now go tell your wife that you've really not "joined together".
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Wrangler
Well-known member
It's totally your issue, which you are doubling down rather than address explicit Scripture which is now my signature.
We agree that many is indeterminate. Yet, you yearn to equate it to 3, which it is not, and therefore, not helpful to you cause one little bit. It's so funny the extent you'll go to strain a nat but disregard the one true God of Scripture.
civic
Well-known member
No one is disregarding the one true God of scripture.
That is the equivalent of me saying you are denying the One True Lord of Scripture- Jesus Christ.
Would you agree ?
If not then you are being unreasonable.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You're assuming your opinion is fact. It is not. As I rightfully witnessed, the many can be one. It is all around us. It is part of our very lives.
It is why you keep ignoring what I wrote in the OP and insisting that you're right.
Have you spoken to your wife about your rank over her?
Wrangler
Well-known member
No. There is not one single verse in Scripture that states that there is one true lord.
The opposite of your claim of equality is true; there are dozens of lords in Scripture, all are real and true lords.
The passion for the trinity is always the man-is-god thesis. No thought to how the Holy Spirit fails to fit into this. No statement by Jesus that the HS is YHWH at all, let alone the one true God.
101G
Well-known member
JESUS is "Lord", and not "lord", big difference. and there are many places in the BIBLE that states the ONE TRUE "Lord".
101G
Wrangler
Well-known member
The big difference is that Jesus is not "LORD."
101G
Well-known member
Yikes! for U. now look it up please.I wouldn't want to engage in the widespread practice of "labeling" others, although it is a popular practice. So I am not responding to the labels, "Trinitarian", "Unitarian" or whatever label religious men group folks into. But I would like to comment on the definition of "Equal" as it pertains to marriage.
Being equal it seems, as my bride of 42 years and I have found, would mean that both the man and the woman "Yielded themselves" servants to obey God. Each looking to God to define their roles in the unit. These roles are different than that of a single man or a single woman.
The first12 years of our union we really didn't concern ourselves with God's instruction since the religions of the world we had adopted, told us we were already all set, as it is written "Thou shall surely not die". So we nearly split as a result, not knowing the necessity of denying ourselves.
I think God used our daughter, who we shared an intense love for, to help prompt us to ask HIM for help. It wasn't her fault she was born into our supposed "unit", and from that point on we trusted God and HIS Word alone for advice.
I believe God created marriage in part, to show us some of what His Son goes through with us. When my wife would do something to make me angry, I knew I needed to go to God for direction. Here is His Answer. "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it".
Yes God, but she didn't do what I asked? "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it". Yes God, but she ignores me. "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it".
And my bride has said, and understands the same thing. When I do something that makes her angry, she too, goes to God for advice. And here is the advice God gives her. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord". Yes, but he tracked dirt into the house! "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord". Yes, But he ignored me! "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."
If I love God, I will give myself to the Wife He gave me, and I will listen to her cares and attend to them. If she Loves God, she will abide by the Hierarchy God created, knowing she is the weaker vessel by God's design. We both know that God uses each of us to test and prove the other, whether we will walk in His Way or not.
In this way, we become one flesh, and are One with Christ, even as HE is One with God.
Both equal one with the other, both growing in the knowledge of the Lord, and Both denying ourselves, carrying our life's experiences, and following the Christ "of the bible".
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
How much MORE.... so relative to perfection.
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