@Jim
Romans 8 tells us whom and how men are called by God. Verse 28 tells us it is those who love God that are called according to His purpose.
Jim I must comment on this since you posted this to me, and for me not to respond would show that I'm not able to do so, which is far from being the truth. I have responded to you in past on these very scriptures, but have not done so maybe in the past five years or so. The bold words were done by me for discussion.
You wrote: "Romans 8 tells us whom and how men are called by God."
Jim it does indeed, but, much different than what you saying, as a matter of fact ~
totally different. Our loving God
does not proceed our calling out of darkness in the light of the blessed truth of the gospel,
impossible.
What is said of all things working together for good is here
limited to those who love God. This is given as a peculiar characteristic of a Christian. It imports that all behaviors love God, and that none but believers love Him. Philosophers, falsely so called, and men of various descriptions, may boast of loving God; but the decision of God Himself is, that to love Him is the peculiar characteristic
of a Christian.
No man can love God till He hath shined into his heart to give him
the light of the knowledge of His glory in the face of Jesus Christ. It is therefore only through faith in the blood of Christ that we can love God. Until our faith gives us some assurance of reconciliation with God,
we cannot have the confidence which is essential to loving God.
Till then we dread God as our enemy, and fear that He will punish us for our sins. In loving God, the affections of the believer terminate in God as their last and highest end; and this they can do in God only. In everything else, there being only a finite goodness, we cannot absolutely rest in it.
This is the rest that David had when he said:
Psalm 73:25
"Whom have I in heaven but Thee? And there is none upon earth that I desire besides Thee; God is the strength of my heart and my portion for ever,"
This is what satisfies the believer in his need and poverty, and in every situation in which he may be placed, for it suffices him to have God for his heritage and his possession, since God is his all; and as this Divine love expels the love of the world, so it overcomes the immoderate love of himself. He is led to love what God loves, and to hate what God hates, and thus he walks in communion with God, loving God, and more and more desiring to comprehend what is the breadth and length, and depth and height, and to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge.
But Jim, this
only possible by the truth that God
first loved us in Christ according to the everlasting covenant of grace, otherwise, we would not love God in the flesh as we are by nature.
1 John 4:10
“Herein is love,
not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son
to be the propitiation for our sins.”
1 John 4:19
“We love him,
because he first loved us.”
Romans 3:10-18, should be enough to convinced you and others that it is
impossible for a man still in the flesh to do
any spiritual acts, especially so in loving God, which generally comes to even believers over time as they learn of the many great spiritual blessings they have in Christ, by God's grace alone. Love is one of those fruits of the spirit that generally is seen more in matured believers than younger ones. Much like loving your spouse, it grows over the years. Jim, men still in flesh hates God due to their sin/fallen nature, they naturally opposed to God's holiness and his power over them. By nature they are at war with god, his word and his people.
Romans 8:7
“Because the carnal mind
is enmity against God: for it is
not subject to the law of God, neither indeed
can be.
So then they that are
in the flesh cannot please God.”
Jim, why are you going against plain scriptures by even thinking man in the flesh can love God, which only a
mature believer can do with any measure of success?
It is in God's foreknowledge that He knows who they were, are and will be.
God's foreknowledge as an attribute is not even considered here, that's not the meaning of "foreknow". While I agree 100% that God elected us based on his foreknowledge of knowing that
if He did not elect some among Adam's fallen race, then
NONE would have ever been saved by their works, which is clearly proven by Adam who was representative of his posterity, a perfect representative of all his posterity being created upright and provided all he needed to continue in that state, except one thing, God left him to himself without preserving him from falling. In the new covenant God
secures his elect through Christ's obedience and righteousness!
For whom He did foreknow~ The word foreknow has three significations. One is general, importing simply a knowledge of things before they come into existence. In this general sense it is evident that it is not employed in this passage, since it is limited to those whom God predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. He foreknows all things before they come to pass; but here foreknowledge refers
only to particular individuals.
A
second signification is a knowledge accompanied by a decree. In this sense it signifies ordinance and providence, as it is said, Acts 2:23, ‘Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God;’ that is to say, by the ordinance and providence of God. The reason why this word is used to denote the Divine determinations is because the foreknowledge of God necessarily implies His purpose or decree with respect to the thing foreknown. For God foreknows what will be, by determining what shall be. God’s foreknowledge cannot in itself be the cause of any event; but events must be produced by His decree and ordination. It is not because God foresees a thing that it is decreed; but He foresees it because it is ordained by Him to happen in the order of His providence. Therefore His foreknowledge and decrees
cannot be separated; for the one implies the other. When He decrees that a thing shall be, He foresees that it will be. There is nothing known as what will be, which is not certainly to be; and there is nothing certainly to be, unless it is ordained that it shall be. All the foreknowledge of future events, then, is founded on the decree of God; consequently He determined
with Himself from eternity everything He executes in time, Acts15:18. Nothing is contingent in the mind of God, who foresees and orders all events according to His own eternal and unchangeable will. Jesus Christ was not delivered by God fore knowing it before it took place, but by His fixed counsel and ordination, or His providence. Thus believers are called elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, 1st Peter 1:2; and in the same chapter, ver. 19, 20, the Apostle Peter says that Jesus Christ was foreknown before the foundation of the world. Here foreknown signifies, as it is rendered, fore-ordained
The
third signification of this word consists in
a knowledge of love and approbation; and in this sense it signifies to choose and recognize as His own, as it is said, Romans 11:2, ‘God hath not cast away His people whom He foreknew,’ — that is, whom He had before loved and chosen; for the Apostle alleges this foreknowledge as the reason why God had not rejected His people.
In this manner the word ‘know’ is often taken in Scripture in the sense of knowing with affection, loving, approving; as in the first Psalm, "The Lord knoweth the way of the righteous; but the way of the ungodly shall perish." To know the way of the just, is to love, to approve, as appears by the antithesis. Paul says to the Corinthians, "If any man love God, the same is know of Him,"~ 1st Corinthians 8:3; and to the Galatians, "But now after ye have known God or rather are known of Him.’ In the same way, God said by His Prophet to Israel, "You only have I known of all the families of the earth," Amos 3:2. At the day of judgment Jesus Christ will say to hypocrites, "I never knew you,"
Matthew 7:23; that is to say, He never loved or acknowledged them, although He perfectly knew their characters and actions. In this last sense the word foreknow is employed in the passage before us. Those whom God foreknew...... those whom
He before loved, chose, acknowledged as His own ~ He predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son It is not a general anticipated knowledge that is here intended. The Apostle does not speak of all, but of some, whom in verse 33 he calls
"God’s elect"; and not of anything in their persons, or belonging to them, but of the persons themselves, whom it is said God foreknew. And He adds, that those whom He foreknew He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son; and whom he predestinated He also called, and justified, and glorified.
By foreknowledge, then, is not here meant a foreknowledge of faith or good works, or of concurrence with the external call Faith cannot be the cause of foreknowledge, because foreknowledge is before predestination, and faith is the effect of predestination. "As many as were ordained to eternal life believed," Acts 13:48. Neither can it be meant of the foreknowledge of good works, because these are
the effects of predestination. ‘We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works; which God hath before ordained (or before prepared) that we should walk in them,’ Ephesians2:10.
Neither can it be meant of foreknowledge of our concurrence with the external call, because our effectual calling depends not upon that concurrence,
but upon God’s purpose and grace, given us in Christ Jesusbefore the world began, 2nd Timothy 1:9
By this foreknowledge, then, is meant, as has been observed, the love of God towards those whom He predestinates to be saved through Jesus Christ. All the called of God are foreknown by Him ~ that is, they are the objects of His eternal love, and their calling comes from this
free love.
Jeremiah 31:3
"I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with loving-kindness I have drawn thee,"
