Moses and Jesus taught free will

civic

Well-known member
Notice in Numbers whoever looked at the snake lived and did not die- those who did not look at the snake died. The willingly looked and lived. Just like in the N.T. those who look to Jesus live, no coersion, no forcing one to look. ITs up to man to accept the snake or reject the snake which can save them.

John 3:14-15
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him

Numbers 21:8-9
The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

hope this helps !!!
 
Multiple Choice Question below :

Numbers 21:9: So Moses made a bronze serpent and put it on the flag pole; and it came about, that if a serpent bit _________, and he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

1. Everyone
2. An Elect Person
3. A Lucky Lottery Winner

Biblical Answer !

John Chapter 3:14-15
And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes will have eternal life in Him.

hope this helps !!!
 
Faith does precede life, regeneration , salvation but its not Gods faith, its the faith that man places in Christ to save them.

See below from Jesus own teaching. After-all He is the Savior in whom salvific faith is placed in right ? He should know.

Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved and healed you. Not the faith I gave you healed you.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

Gods universal love below :

See Barnes the calvinist below :


The world
- All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See John 6:33; John 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:

1. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.

2. All people were in a hopeless condition.

3. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift - an undeserved gift.

4. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.

5. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Hebrews 2:9. He "died for all," 2 Corinthians 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.

That he gave - It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim: and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Galatians 1:4; Romans 8:32; Luke 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire, that sinners should not perish forever.



See Calvin on John 3:16


For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish.
 
It would appear that some Calvinist seek to discourage everyone from looking to Jesus. In fact, they teach that not just anyone can come to Jesus and then expect others to not actually listen to them.

Might this qualify for.....

Mat 23:13 “But woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You keep locking people out of the kingdom of heaven! For you neither enter nor permit those trying to enter to go in.

As rightfully witnessed from these Scriptures, there are deceivers in this world that prevent others from entering the kingdom of God.
 
False Parallel used to draw a flawed conclusion.

Numbers 21:8-9
The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

Numbers states: "Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived."
  • Does that not mean that EVERYONE that looked at the bronze snake lived and the ONLY THING that was required was for them to LOOK at the snake.

John 3:14-15
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him
John 3 states that Jesus would be lifted up like the snake was lifted up. It also states that everyone who BELIEVES (not looks) will be saved. Many saw the cross (and mocked).
  • pretend I posted the verse here (and you ignored it as you always do).
  • Those that SAW and mocked were not saved, were they. Clearly something more was required.
You claim that the examples are the same and the person had to LOOK in Numbers (an act of the condemned person brought salvation) and the person needs to BELIEVE in John (an act of the condemned person brings salvation).

The word of God disagrees.

First, many believed for a while and fell away ... so something more was clearly required.
  • pretend I posted the verse here (and you ignored it as you always do).
Then, there are many places where God makes a point of telling us that our FAITH is from God and not from ourselves:
  • "the faith which comes through Him" [Acts 3:16]
  • "He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" [Acts 15:9]
  • "as God has allotted to each a measure of faith" [Romans 12:3]
  • "to another [is given] faith by the same Spirit" [1 Corinthians 12:9]
  • "before faith came" [Galatians 3:23]
  • "But now that faith has come" [Galatians 3:25]
  • "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" [Ephesians 2:8]
  • "To those who have received a faith" [2 Peter 1:1]

“The one who has ears to hear, let him hear."
 
False Parallel used to draw a flawed conclusion.



Numbers states: "Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived."
  • Does that not mean that EVERYONE that looked at the bronze snake lived and the ONLY THING that was required was for them to LOOK at the snake.


John 3 states that Jesus would be lifted up like the snake was lifted up. It also states that everyone who BELIEVES (not looks) will be saved. Many saw the cross (and mocked).
  • pretend I posted the verse here (and you ignored it as you always do).
  • Those that SAW and mocked were not saved, were they. Clearly something more was required.
You claim that the examples are the same and the person had to LOOK in Numbers (an act of the condemned person brought salvation) and the person needs to BELIEVE in John (an act of the condemned person brings salvation).

The word of God disagrees.

First, many believed for a while and fell away ... so something more was clearly required.
  • pretend I posted the verse here (and you ignored it as you always do).
Then, there are many places where God makes a point of telling us that our FAITH is from God and not from ourselves:
  • "the faith which comes through Him" [Acts 3:16]
  • "He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" [Acts 15:9]
  • "as God has allotted to each a measure of faith" [Romans 12:3]
  • "to another [is given] faith by the same Spirit" [1 Corinthians 12:9]
  • "before faith came" [Galatians 3:23]
  • "But now that faith has come" [Galatians 3:25]
  • "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" [Ephesians 2:8]
  • "To those who have received a faith" [2 Peter 1:1]

“The one who has ears to hear, let him hear."

So Jesus made a mistake when He referenced the the brazen serpent? That is what the scenario you describe above creates.

It is rather easy for you to dismiss most any argument made by ignoring this simple fact. Jesus is the one that used the example. It is important that you believe Jesus. Instead of demanding that Jesus is wrong, you must show how Jesus is right. You're not trying to establish why what Jesus said is true.
 
So Jesus made a mistake when He referenced the the brazen serpent? That is what the scenario you describe above creates.

It is rather easy for you to dismiss most any argument made by ignoring this simple fact. Jesus is the one that used the example. It is important that you believe Jesus. Instead of demanding that Jesus is wrong, you must show how Jesus is right. You're not trying to establish why what Jesus said is true.
Should we believe Jesus or Calvin 😂
 
...

Numbers states: "Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived."
  • Does that not mean that EVERYONE that looked at the bronze snake lived and the ONLY THING that was required was for them to LOOK at the snake.
...
Freely looked, or ordained/decreed by God to look?
 
Freely looked, or ordained/decreed by God to look?
Ask @civic , it was his point from that verse. Jesus was pointing to Moses and the bronze servant to convey a completely different message … sin, judged and cursed, hung from a pole, pointing the way to life through FAITH and the work of God rather than SACRIFICE and the work of men.
 
Ask @civic , it was his point from that verse. Jesus was pointing to Moses and the bronze servant to convey a completely different message … sin, judged and cursed, hung from a pole, pointing the way to life through FAITH and the work of God rather than SACRIFICE and the work of men.
God did all the work. All men had to do is look to God who did all the work. That doesn't equal man doing the work. Jesus was right. Look and live.
 
So in regard to the claim by Calvinists well God doesn't REALLY want everyone to believe, if he did he would put it in them. This morning I felt an inclination to read most of John 3, and look at the whole passage. I saw something I think is pretty significant but let me take you through it. I'll give commentary throughout.

3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’

Now watch what Jesus is about to do. He's going to give a natural realm analogy and for what purpose? To aid and help Nicodemus to believe.

8 "The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

OK let's stop there. Why did he take the time to give a natural realm analogy (earthly things) ? Surely he did so in order to help and aid him to believe! What was the earthly thing he told him about? The wind blowing different directions. Point. He wanted and longed for all the people to believe (all the other religious priests too) for notice he said in vs 11 and yet you people do not accept our testimony. So if Jesus did not really want them to believe he wouldn't even have brought up about the wind. I mean why bother?

13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

So God wanted them to believe unto eternal life even the ones which didn't. I'll say again that's why he even brought up about the directions of the wind to give them an analogy to help them do so. If he didn't want them to he wouldn't have bothered to have said anything in Jn 3:8! I encourage all to read that verse. So let's go on,

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

So closing points. God wanted all of them to believe. To deny this would have Jesus wasting time giving analogies for no reason. So Calvinists have Jesus playing a game of pretending. Pretending that he wants them to believe by giving the analogy (the wind blowing different ways) but within him it's like no sir.....I haven't ordained them to believe but I've got to make it look good by at least trying to give them an analogy to,

help them even though NOPE.... I don't want them helped! I don't believe that. I believe he longed and did everything possible to get them to understand and believe and when he wept over Jerusalem Matt 23:27 saying he would have gathered them like a hen gathers her chicks I totally believe he was sincere and genuine. In other words they were REAL tears not something put on for show.
 
So in regard to the claim by Calvinists well God doesn't REALLY want everyone to believe, if he did he would put it in them. This morning I felt an inclination to read most of John 3, and look at the whole passage. I saw something I think is pretty significant but let me take you through it. I'll give commentary throughout.

3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’

Now watch what Jesus is about to do. He's going to give a natural realm analogy and for what purpose? To aid and help Nicodemus to believe.

8 "The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

OK let's stop there. Why did he take the time to give a natural realm analogy (earthly things) ? Surely he did so in order to help and aid him to believe! What was the earthly thing he told him about? The wind blowing different directions. Point. He wanted and longed for all the people to believe (all the other religious priests too) for notice he said in vs 11 and yet you people do not accept our testimony. So if Jesus did not really want them to believe he wouldn't even have brought up about the wind. I mean why bother?

13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

So God wanted them to believe unto eternal life even the ones which didn't. I'll say again that's why he even brought up about the directions of the wind to give them an analogy to help them do so. If he didn't want them to he wouldn't have bothered to have said anything in Jn 3:8! I encourage all to read that verse. So let's go on,

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

So closing points. God wanted all of them to believe. To deny this would have Jesus wasting time giving analogies for no reason. So Calvinists have Jesus playing a game of pretending. Pretending that he wants them to believe by giving the analogy (the wind blowing different ways) but within him it's like no sir.....I haven't ordained them to believe but I've got to make it look good by at least trying to give them an analogy to,

help them even though NOPE.... I don't want them helped! I don't believe that. I believe he longed and did everything possible to get them to understand and believe and when he wept over Jerusalem Matt 23:27 saying he would have gathered them like a hen gathers her chicks I totally believe he was sincere and genuine. In other words they were REAL tears not something put on for show.
Excellent and thanks for your study of the passage and sharing Gods truth with us.

He who has ears to hear , let him hear . :)
 
Yes believe and have life. :)
Some will not come and believe:
John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

For those who come and believe:
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

...........
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
 
Some will not come and believe:
John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

For those who come and believe:
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

...........
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
And that is their choice to refuse to come as Jesus said- you refuse to come to Me that you might have life and its these scriptures that bear witness of Me. ( John 5:40 ) The atonement is universal for all men, everyone without exception. ( 1 John 2:2 )Those who believe have their sins covered, those who don't are left in their sins and judgement.
 
As taught in the OP and confirmed by other scriptures Gods love is universal to all men everywhere without exception.

Sola Scriptura :)


John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
 

Taking down the Calvinist Strawman on Free Will.

How often have I read in various Facebook theological discussions the declaration of a Calvinist – “Freewill is not taught in Scriptures”? Of course, the freedom of will to go against one’s nature, even for God, is not possible. It is impossible for God to lie or to deny Himself (Titus 1:2, Heb 6:18, 2 Tim 2:13). And it is impossible for me to fly by just flapping my arms. But the ability to freely make decisions commensurate with the limits of one’s nature and with the opportunities provided for such decision making is logically part of God’s and man’s nature and experience. The exercise of that ability by God and by man is also well documented in Scripture. And I can fly… if I decide to get on an airplane and allow its power to transport me through the air!

The following is an attempt at a rather thorough study of words used in the OT and NT that teach aspects and examples of the exercise of freewill. The reader will hopefully become convinced, contrary to Calvinistic dramatic false statements in opposition, that freewill is clearly taught in the Scriptures –

The Hebrew word [verb] נדב naw-dab’ is a primitive root that means – to impel; hence, to volunteer (as a soldier), to present spontaneously…primarily translated as an adverb “willingly” which indicates free motivation or voluntary decision. It is used 17 times in 15 verses throughout OT Scripture [also 3 times in 3 verses using the same root in Aramaic – Ezra 7:13, 15, 16]. (Most of definitions for this paper are adapted from Strong’s Concordance lexical definitions.)

Here are all the verses that translate this word, נדב naw-dab’, with the translation of it underlined. The ESV translation for each verse was chosen to accommodate Calvinist readers, so they won’t have to keep running back to their favorite translation, which is deterministically flavored.

Exod 25:2 ESV “… From every man whose heart moves him you shall receive the contribution for me.

Exod 35:21 ESV And they came, everyone whose heart stirred him, and everyone whose spirit moved him….

Exod 35:29 ESV All the men and women, the people of Israel, whose heart moved them to bring anything for the work that the LORD had commanded by Moses to be done brought it as a freewill offering to the LORD.

Judg 5:2 ESV …that the leaders took the lead in Israel, that the people offered themselves willingly, bless the LORD!

Ezr 7:13 ESV – 13 I make a decree that anyone of the people of Israel or their priests or Levites in my kingdom, who freely offers to go to Jerusalem, may go with you.


—-[The verbal form in this last verse is a participle, on the Hithpael stem, which is reflexive in meaning, thus the word “themselves” should be added. This Hithpael verbal stem is used 17 times in the same reflexive way – Jg 5:2, 9; 1Ch 29:5, 6, 9(2x), 14, 17(2x); 2Ch 17:16; Ezr 1:6, 2:68, 3:5, 7:13, 15, 16; Neh 11:2]. The reflexive action only helps to emphasize the non-compulsory action of the person’s will in the decision made in each context—-

The noun נדבה ned-aw-baw’ is used 26 times in 25 verses, mostly in connection with a voluntary – “freewill” – offering to God. With all these verses one cannot help but ask “How can you have a freewill offering without a freewill?” Calvinists reject its normal meaning, but the Bible literally uses the word 26 times. Even the Calvinist translators of the KJV and ESV freely chose “freewill” as a suitable translation. Their translation choice is telling of what they believed this original word meant.

Here are the verses in which this noun is used:

Exod 35:29 ESV All the men and women, the people of Israel, whose heart moved them to bring anything for the work that the LORD had commanded by Moses to be done brought it as a freewill offering to the LORD. —-[The idea in this verse of a sacrifice made as a free-will offering, one not commanded as an obligation, is also found in – Ex 36:3; Le 7:16; 22:18, 21, 23; 23:38; Nu 15:3; 29:39; De 12:6, 17; 16:10; 2Ch 31:14; Ezr 1:4; 3:5; 8:28; Ps 54:6; 119:108; Eze 46:12(2x); Am 4:5]

Deut 23:23 ESV You shall be careful to do what has passed your lips, for you have voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God what you have promised with your mouth.

2Ch 35:8 ESV And his officials contributed willingly to the people, to the priests, and to the Levites….

Ps 68:9 ESV Rain in abundance, O God, you shed abroad; you restored your inheritance as it languished;

Ps 110:3 ESV Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.

Hos 14:4 ESV I will heal their apostasy; I will love them freely, for my anger has turned from them.


—All these OT verses clearly confirm that man, even an unregenerate man, can exercise a free-will in a manner pleasing to God. Even God is said to exercise His freewill in Hos 14:4. The translation in Ps 68:9 was obviously determined with some subjectivity. It could easily be translated – “A shower of freewill gifts, O God, you have shed abroad…”

Here are some NT words and verses to consider that also speak to the issue of the freedom of the will. A Calvinist may try to attribute all of the following examples as a result of regeneration, but that does not seem to fit this first example –

Acts 17:11-12 ESV Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men.

—-[from προθυμια proth-oo-mee’-ah, meaning predisposition. See also 2Co 8:11, 12, 19, 9:2;] The Calvinist may endeavor to suggest this willing predisposition of the Bereans was a result of regeneration, which they think is before faith is expressed. It is very difficult to convince them otherwise when their loyalty to Calvinism is so strong that they refuse to see the gospel of John clearly teaches light is freely received before faith which is before new birth life is given. See John 1:4-13, 12:35-36, 20:30-31.

Other NT verses to consider that speak to the issue of freewill are these –

1Cor 7:37 ESV But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. —-from μη ἔχων ἀνάγκην , literally – “not having a necessity”, which would be impossible if everything was predetermined eternally and immutably, making every event a necessary result of God’s decree. Notice also the verse says this man “having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart.”

1Cor 9:17 ESV For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but if not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship. —- from εχων hek-own’ meaning willingly.

2Cor 8:3 ESV For they gave according to their means, as I can testify, and beyond their means, of their own accord, and 2Cor 8:17 ESV For he not only accepted our appeal, but being himself very earnest he is going to you of his own accord. —-from αυθαιρετος ow-thah’-ee-ret-os – meaning self-chosen, and by implication – voluntary.

2Cor 9:7 ESV Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. —- from προαιρεομαι pro-ahee-reh’-om-ahee – meaning to choose for oneself before another thing, to prefer and by implication, to intend.

Phlm 1:14 ESV but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord. —- from εκουσιος hek-oo’-see-on – meaning willingness.

1Pet 5:2 ESV shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; —-from εκουσιον hek-oo-see’-ose – meaning willingly.

The existence of a free will, even post regeneration, runs counter to the idea of an eternally immutable divine will that had completely determined everything forever into the future before creation began. Calvinism is based upon that philosophical premise, making the exercise of any free-will for God or man impossible, before creation and especially after it. That premise makes a falsehood out of these clear Scriptures shared here. These Scriptures and many others clearly show that free will does exist and is being exercised by God and man. Brian Wagner

hope this helps !!!
 
So in regard to the claim by Calvinists well God doesn't REALLY want everyone to believe, if he did he would put it in them. This morning I felt an inclination to read most of John 3, and look at the whole passage. I saw something I think is pretty significant but let me take you through it. I'll give commentary throughout.

3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’

Now watch what Jesus is about to do. He's going to give a natural realm analogy and for what purpose? To aid and help Nicodemus to believe.

8 "The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony.12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

OK let's stop there. Why did he take the time to give a natural realm analogy (earthly things) ? Surely he did so in order to help and aid him to believe! What was the earthly thing he told him about? The wind blowing different directions. Point. He wanted and longed for all the people to believe (all the other religious priests too) for notice he said in vs 11 and yet you people do not accept our testimony. So if Jesus did not really want them to believe he wouldn't even have brought up about the wind. I mean why bother?

13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

So God wanted them to believe unto eternal life even the ones which didn't. I'll say again that's why he even brought up about the directions of the wind to give them an analogy to help them do so. If he didn't want them to he wouldn't have bothered to have said anything in Jn 3:8! I encourage all to read that verse. So let's go on,

16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

So closing points. God wanted all of them to believe. To deny this would have Jesus wasting time giving analogies for no reason. So Calvinists have Jesus playing a game of pretending. Pretending that he wants them to believe by giving the analogy (the wind blowing different ways) but within him it's like no sir.....I haven't ordained them to believe but I've got to make it look good by at least trying to give them an analogy to,

help them even though NOPE.... I don't want them helped! I don't believe that. I believe he longed and did everything possible to get them to understand and believe and when he wept over Jerusalem Matt 23:27 saying he would have gathered them like a hen gathers her chicks I totally believe he was sincere and genuine. In other words they were REAL tears not something put on for show.
Well said.

The message of Calvinism... Is God wanted me and not you.
 
Well said.

The message of Calvinism... Is God wanted me and not you.
Actually he wanted only the 1 and left the 99 to go hell. He only came to save a few, some and in love damned the rest without any choice to escape their death sentence upon them before they were even born , vessels of wrath created for destruction as Calvinists teach and twist the scriptures to make God actually unloving , not good and unbenevolent. A god of rage, wrath, condemnation , unjust and vengeful just like the gods of paganism.

The Calvinist in good faith cannot affirm God is love without assaulting His Good character.

I know as I believed it for over 4 decades just like Calvinists teach.
 
3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’

Now watch what Jesus is about to do. He's going to give a natural realm analogy and for what purpose? To aid and help Nicodemus to believe.
John 3:6 "Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit."

So from your "observation", the statement "but spirit is born of the Spirit" means absolutely NOTHING. Jesus is about to help Nicodemus FLESH give re-birth to his spirit.

"Halleluyer" as Madea would say. :unsure:
 
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