Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Clay said:
Because you believe and are justified you're able to confess with your mouth that you are saved. Professing with your mouth doesn't save you. Believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord will save you. It's already been mentioned in this thread a few times that if you're not saved you're unable to confess Jesus as Lord.
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Oh-OK-you guys go right ahead-

Faith in Jesus Christ
John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
Acts 16:31:

"They replied, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.'"
Repentance
Acts 2:38:

"Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
Luke 13:3:

"I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
Confession of Faith
Romans 10:9-10:

"If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."
1 John 4:15:

"If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God."
Baptism
Mark 16:16:

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
1 Peter 3:21:

"And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
Galatians 3:27:

"For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
Acts 22:16:

"And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."
Living a Faithful Life
Matthew 7:21:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
James 2:14-17:

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
Titus 3:5-8:

"He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone."
Revelation 2:10:

"Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown."

Shalom
J.
 
Doug - "I live by, advocate, and teach the Truth that is found in God's Word."
So how are you living by Hebrews 10:25?

Doug - "If God had not said that baptism is the point at which salvation is received, I would not advocate for it. But He did, and so I must."
So what verse has God specifically telling us that baptism is the point of salvation? I want the verse with that information, please, not your "interpretation" of the verse.
 
Aeliana said:
Are we going to have to make you sit in the corner?
But seriously you know how many times I've wanted to say that. What we need here is Nurse Ratched. It's time for your electric shock treatment.

View attachment 708
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Not so much. It's time for people to stop being heretics when it comes to Scripture and stop beating a dead dog, when they have been enlighten by the correct obvious answer.
 
dwight92070 said:
Doug - "I live by, advocate, and teach the Truth that is found in God's Word."
So how are you living by Hebrews 10:25?

Doug - "If God had not said that baptism is the point at which salvation is received, I would not advocate for it. But He did, and so I must."
So what verse has God specifically telling us that baptism is the point of salvation? I want the verse with that information, please, not your "interpretation" of the verse.
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Sounds good to me
 
koberstein said:
Me too. People don't like being wrong with there thinking when the correct truth is present. I call it the RC factor. Resistant to Change.
Shalom
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Yes indoctrination is a difficult one. I was duped for decades with tulip( Calvinism ) it’s probably why I’m passionate in opposing it on the forums.
 
You can't take Romans 10:9-10 out of context. The context begins in verse 5:

For Moses writes that the man who PRACTICES the righteousness which is based on law speaks as follows: ..."

So Moses is not speaking of a new convert or a new believer in God. He is referring to a person who has already been a believer and is now PRACTICING the righteousness based on law.

Likewise in verses 6-10, Paul is referring to the man who practices righteousness based on faith. He has already been born again, but now he is practicing the righteousness based on faith. He continually believes in his heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and continually confesses with his mouth that Jesus is his Lord.

So why does verse 10 say "resulting in righteousness" and "resulting in salvation"?

It doesn't. The actual translation from the Greek (the word is "eis") is "to righteousness" and "to salvation". The words "resulting in" are man's commentary, not the actual translation from the Greek word.

So we have "for with the heart a person believes to righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses to salvation."

So how do we understand this? Well, those who want confession to be one of the conditions in order to be saved (along with baptism), will say that "to righteousness"and "to salvation" mean "resulting in" - but that's not what it says.

Those who don't believe that verbal confession and baptism are required in order to be saved, like myself, may see it differently. I can't speak for others, but I think it means "to affirm righteousness" and "to affirm salvation" - both of which the person already possessed.

My preferred interpretation is in agreement with 2 Peter 1:10:

"Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you PRACTICE these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you".

As believers, we not only seek to practice the 8 or 9 virtues that Peter mentions in that verse, but we also practice (or continue in) confessing that He is our Lord and we continue in our belief that God raised Him from the dead (which confirms that our sins are forgiven):

1 Corinthians 15:17 "and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins."
 
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civic said:
Yes indoctrination is a difficult one. I was duped for decades with tulip( Calvinism ) it’s probably why I’m passionate in opposing it on the forums.
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I can relate to that. I appreciate your posts and insight. I don't know everything about Scripture, but I can study and learn and not accept things on face value.
 
To require baptism as being necessary for salvation is a different gospel. Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation.

To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus’ death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ’s death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus’ death alone paid for our sins.

Jesus paid it all his Death and Resurrection was sufficient to secure our salvation.
 
civic said:
Yes indoctrination is a difficult one. I was duped for decades with tulip( Calvinism ) it’s probably why I’m passionate in opposing it on the forums.
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But look at the bright side, You can have a yard sale for all your books by MacArthur and Piper and R. C. Sproul.

Even Calvinist affirm that baptism is “a sign of forgiveness,” but not an actual requirement of salvation.
 
Clay said:
But look at the bright side, You can have a yard sale for all your books by MacArthur and Piper and R. C. Sproul.

Even Calvinist affirm that baptism is “a sign of forgiveness,” but not an actual requirement of salvation.
Click to expand...
I gave all my Sproul videos to a Baptist church up the road from me.
 
Johann said:
Oh-OK-you guys go right ahead-

Faith in Jesus Christ
John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
Acts 16:31:

"They replied, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.'"
Repentance
Acts 2:38:

"Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"
Luke 13:3:

"I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
Confession of Faith
Romans 10:9-10:

"If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."
1 John 4:15:

"If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God."
Baptism
Mark 16:16:

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
1 Peter 3:21:

"And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
Galatians 3:27:

"For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
Acts 22:16:

"And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."
Living a Faithful Life
Matthew 7:21:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
James 2:14-17:

"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
Titus 3:5-8:

"He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone."
Revelation 2:10:

"Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown."

Shalom
J.
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I don't understand why you quote 15-16 verses and yet do not comment on the issue at hand. What are you accomplishing?
 
dwight92070 said:
I don't understand why you quote 15-16 verses and yet do not comment on the issue at hand. What are you accomplishing?
Click to expand...
My understanding would be that the verses that @Johann quoted on salvation were void of any mention of baptism. Or doesn't accomplish anything but it shows that baptism is not necessary in order for one to be saved.
 

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