Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[synergy]

Matthew 3:11
. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

I have heard more than once Pentecostals quoting this verse in their vain attempt to support their doctrine of Baptism of the Spirit~but the context of John words will not support their teachings, not even close. and we will take it a step farther and say, no one truly wants this baptism of the Spirit.

This baptism of the Spirit is a baptism of destruction in the lake of fire after the Great White Throne Judgement~At which judgment the The Lord Jesus will be the the Judge and his saints with him approving. Consider the context of Matthew 3 with us:


To saved time, we highlighted what we desire for our readers to see in order to grasp the true meaning of what John is saying when he said that he only baptized with water, but one coming after him is mightier than he is, and that he would baptized not with water, but with the Holy Ghost and fire, which he explain to be a judgment of burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire!

The baptism of fire will be when the wicked are cast alive into the lake of fire to be destroyed...burn up. It will not be a sprinkling of a little fire, but an immersion into the lake of fire ~ which is the second death of the wicked. It is not that deep, just one has to believe the testimony of God's word, not men behind the pulpit calling themselves men of God when in fact they very seldom even come close to teaching truth~they teach what others desire them to teach, or else, they would be alone somewhere in this world doing much what we are doing.

Interesting. John the Baptist's audience is definitely the Pharisees and Sadducees when he says those words in Matt 3:11. So Pentecostals place themselves in the same company as Pharisees and Sadducees. They are unwittingly condemning themselves.

I keep saying over and over again that over half of all heresies will immediately evaporate if people could just develop proper language comprehension skills.

 

[Red Baker]

I keep saying over and over again that over half of all heresies will immediately evaporate if people could just develop proper language comprehension skills.

As long as there are generation of little viper running throughput this world, preaching lies and resisting the truth from God's children~keeps men hearts and minds closed to the truth.

These men are greater in natural wisdom than the children of light, so, it is not a reading comprehension problem, but a lack of the Spirit of God not working through them....... Peter and John were uneducated fishermen, in comparison to the Sadducees and Pharisees.

Acts 5:13~"Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus."

That my friend is the key to our success, if indeed there's any wrought by us~education is not the answer~it is more of a hinderance, if the truth was known. These days, everyone has Dr. before his name. Once I see that, I know there a person which would be impossible to show them any truth. When riding by the seminary in our town, I'm careful not to roll my window down a Dr, degree might just land on my front seat.

Not against education~I have a daughter that has a real PhD in Business and a grandson working on Neurosurgeon degree~ another one that is a scientist, yet in religion they hand DR. degrees out like a bottle of water.

 

[Bubba]

The belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is also known as "baptismal regeneration." It is our contention that baptism is an important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation. We strongly believe that each and every Christian should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4 declares, “Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures Christ’s resurrection.

Here is an answer to the question "is baptism necessary for salvation" in this video You will find the answer from a Biblical perspective .

 

[Grace ambassador]

The belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is also known as "baptismal regeneration."

Precious friend, then John the [ water ] baptizer was incorrect?:

"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism​

of repentance for the remission of sins. " (Mark 1:4 AV)​

+
And Christ Himself was incorrect?:

"He that believeth and is [ water ] baptized shall be saved..." (Mark 16:16a AV)​

+
Peter was also incorrect?:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be [ water ] baptized every​

one of you in The Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,​

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. " (Acts 2:38)​

+
God's Pure Words are also incorrect?:

"And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being​

baptized with the [ water ] baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers​

rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not [ water ] baptized​

of him." (Luke 7:29-30 AV)​

​

Of course that was in the previous Dispensation of prophecy, covenants and law,
for Israel.

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

How about today's Body Of Christ, in the "Revelation Of The Mystery"
and Dispensation Of The Grace God? With Only:

ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism?

Amen.

 

[360watt]

Does water baptism saved anyone legally? Absolutely not. Is there a salvation for one that hears, believes and is baptized in water? Yes, it is a practical salvation of having a true knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ when administered properly~and we will add.....the only baptism truly mentioned is the scriptures, even though baptism is used in different sense in God's word we agree, but truly only one.



civic~We agree as far as legally speaking, only the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ saves us legally.

There is not a verse in the holy scriptures that speaks of the baptism of the Spirit in reference to being born again, no where. And we will add, there are no verses exhorting believers to be baptized with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Pentecostals would have folks to believe.

1st Corinthians 12:13 will not give anyone support to teach such doctrines, if that is the scripture you are thinking of.

Consider: The formation of a local church is the work of the Spirit putting all the members into one body.

What forms various members into one spiritual body to be used by the Spirit (Ist Corinthians 12:12,14)? A spirit in man makes him a living soul and animates his bodily members (James 2:26). A church is more than an organization: it is a spiritual organism with life from the Spirit. All the members of a church are united together spiritually by the Holy Spirit of God. God dwells in a local church by the Presence of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:22; Ist Timothy 3:15). The Spirit takes spiritual children and makes them living stones in His temple (Ist Peter 2:5).

The body here is obviously the local church, for it is all that is mentioned before and after. Those exalting a universal church as the only church that counts interpret this verse to be teaching infant baptism making church members and national citizens, simultaneously.

Paul is writing the local church at Corinth, and he is dealing with gifts in a local church. He will tell them plainly in a few verses that he is talking specifically about them (Ist Corinthians 12:27).

Paul did not jump subjects to water baptism admission into some universal church. The baptism here is not water baptism, for it is a baptism performed by the Holy Spirit. As we said above not every baptism is a baptism involving water and burial in it (Matthew 3:11; 20:22).

Water baptism is an individual act of answering God with a good conscience (I Pet 3:21). Water baptism is performed by a human administrator, not by the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:38). Water baptism does not make church members except in Roman Catholicism, for the eunuch was not made a member anywhere by his baptism by Philip (Acts 8:39).

Church membership, the outward organization, is by mutual assent in Christ, for Paul’s baptism had not made him a member in any sense of any body (Acts 9:18,26).

Since baptism is an immersion, the verse describes the Spirit immersing us into a church.

Believers lay claim to this verse by asking for it to be done when we receive new members, which is the opposite action taken when excluding a member from church body. The church has binding and loosing authority, which the Spirit applies (Matthew 18:18).

The Holy Spirit immerses, buries, plunges, dips, and otherwise sticks new members into the body until they are grafted onto it and participate in the same Spirit in the body.

The result is not salvation, membership, gifts, or anything else, but participation in the body. “To drink into one Spirit” is mutual participation in the lively energy of the Holy Spirit.

What scripture (s) do you think you have to prove your doctrine? Water baptism puts one into Jesus Christ, or, into his faith and teachings, water baptism identifies us with Christ as willing subjects to obey and follow his teachings found in the word of God.

Interesting ..I have the same teaching on 1 co 12:13..but not water baptism as part of salvation. You gotta be church of Christ !

 

[Red Baker]

Interesting ..I have the same teaching on 1 co 12:13..but not water baptism as part of salvation. You gotta be church of Christ !

Not even close! Baptism as I have made in an explicitly manner, has no connection of being saved legally.

Nevertheless, there is a salvation to be had, (based on Mark 16:16) connected to water baptism, and that salvation is strictly practical in nature, a salvation of having a true understanding, or, more than those who have never been baptized in the name Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, even, in the name of Jesus Christ.

I cannot make it any clearer than this.

 

[360watt]

Not even close! Baptism as I have made in an explicitly manner, has no connection of being saved legally.

Nevertheless, there is a salvation to be had, (based on Mark 16:16) connected to water baptism, and that salvation is strictly practical in nature, a salvation of having a true understanding, or, more than those who have never been baptized in the name Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, even, in the name of Jesus Christ.

I cannot make it any clearer than this.

Well then.. I think we may be both independent Baptists with a local only church.

 

[Red Baker]

Well then.. I think we may be both independent Baptists with a local only church.

No, Independent Baptist, who of all sects may be the most shadow in their theology than even Catholics, Mormons, etc. I live on the buckle of the Bible belt~Upstate of South Carolina~The Gospel Hour; Bob Jone University; Tabernacle Bible College; and hundreds, if not thousand of Independent Baptist churches all preaching the same meatless messages.

That being said, I think God has children among them, yet though they would never agree with me, they need a salvation experience that is practical in nature of increasing in the true knowledge of grace, not to mention their eschatology, which they have been brainwashed into believing~that sound more like a science fiction movie than true biblical endtime teachings.

 

[Fred]

Independent Baptist... they need a salvation experience that is practical in nature of increasing in the true knowledge of grace,

What do they teach that runs in opposition to this?

 

[Red Baker]

Fred,

On Mark 16:16, many of them do not even attempt to discuss~other than to say water baptism is not essential to salvation. To them, salvation only mean being saved from damnation, nothing more.

While we agree that water baptism is not essential for salvation from sin and condemnation, there is a practical salvation that comes by being properly baptized into Jesus Christ's religion. This has been discussed above already.

Some of them do teach that the baptism mentioned by Mark is a spiritual baptism using Romans 6:1-4 and 1st Corinthians 12:13, as their support, which scriptures, gives them no support, again, already discussed above.

 

[360watt]

Fred,

On Mark 16:16, many of them do not even attempt to discuss~other than to say water baptism is not essential to salvation. To them, salvation only mean being saved from damnation, nothing more.

While we agree that water baptism is not essential for salvation from sin and condemnation, there is a practical salvation that comes by being properly baptized into Jesus Christ's religion. This has been discussed above already.

Some of them do teach that the baptism mentioned by Mark is a spiritual baptism using Romans 6:1-4 and 1st Corinthians 12:13, as their support, which scriptures, gives them no support, again, already discussed above.

Well the second part of spiritual baptism I'm with you on. 1 co 12:13 is about the church at Corinth.. not all redeemed.

The Holy Spirit doesn't baptise anyone in scripture. There is no universal church.

Practical salvation? I understand the other kind of salvation of a life salvaged to God that is not connected to eternal salvation.. and part of the life salvage is water baptism by immersion.

So I don't know the difference yet between what we believe

 

[TomL]

Regeneration, or giving spiritual life to a child of promise, is 100% grace, without works whatsoever. Or, it ceases to be a promise, and then becomes a work. There are only two types of people in this world: one children of promise, the others, children of the flesh.

Galatians 3:14 (ESV) — 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

 

[Frank Russell]

Yes, this must be why Nestle is trying to monopolize all the water, and cause droughts .. so no one can get baptized. Yep that must be it.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Mark 16:16

"He that BELIEVETH and is baptized shall be saved; but he that BELIEVETH NOT shall be damned."

The key here is the "BELIEVETH" part in receiving salvation, not the baptism part.

There are many in Christendom that tout the work of water baptism is when a person receives salvation but this is against the plan put forth by God through Jesus ! His plan is the receiving of the gospel, believing the gospel to be his truth and through faith accepting this truth and being saved.

 

[Bubba]

Precious friend, then John the [ water ] baptizer was incorrect?:

"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism​

of repentance for the remission of sins. " (Mark 1:4 AV)​

+
And Christ Himself was incorrect?:

"He that believeth and is [ water ] baptized shall be saved..." (Mark 16:16a AV)​

+
Peter was also incorrect?:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be [ water ] baptized every​

one of you in The Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,​

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. " (Acts 2:38)​

+
God's Pure Words are also incorrect?:

"And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being​

baptized with the [ water ] baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers​

rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not [ water ] baptized​

of him." (Luke 7:29-30 AV)​

​

Of course that was in the previous Dispensation of prophecy, covenants and law,
for Israel.

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

How about today's Body Of Christ, in the "Revelation Of The Mystery"
and Dispensation Of The Grace God? With Only:

ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism?

Amen.

I'm sure you know there are many people that believe baptism is not necessary for salvation that is to outwards display of an inward conviction.
I know people that have gotten saved in prison where it's impossible to be baptized. So how would that work if you were doing life? You accept Jesus as your lord and savior but you are unable to be baptized, Would that mean you're not saved. Or would that mean it's just an exception to the rule? If there's exceptions to the rule then where is that in the Bible. Only place I can think of is the thief on the cross. Then you get the answer oh he was baptized in his sweat.

The Apostle of love John in the Books of Bible Attributed to him Was never wrong. It's people that interpret the Bible that sometimes get things wrong. Now John the Baptist the cousin of Jesus, he apparently did get things wrong like when he had his two buddies going to ask Jesus if he was the Messiah or should we look for someone else.

Don't get me wrong I believe everyone should get baptized but it's not a requirement for salvation. You could take it as far as making it into a work. But like I stated to me it's an outward sign of an inward conviction. It shows that we agree with what Jesus did on the cross for us.

That's what Saves us the shedding of his precious blood. To make a requirement for salvation of anything that we must do other than have faith and believe is at work. Even Paul talked about it.

thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.)

He knew that people would be prideful over what they did to secure their salvation. Anyway that's where I'm coming from. And I respect your opinion On salvation being necessary I just told to a different opinion. It doesn't change the fact that we're brothers in Christ.

 

[Grace ambassador]

I'm sure you know there are many people that believe baptism is not necessary for salvation that is to outwards display of an inward conviction.

Precious friend, yes, as I used to be one of them, until I got out of traditions of religions, and, into
God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, and found and studied ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism. Thus,
I cannot, in good conscience toward God, change His Word to say, that for today, Under Grace,
that He Has "Two" baptisms for the Body Of Christ.

Brother In Christ, thanks for your valuable input.

Amen.

 

[dwight92070]

Fred you need to prove what you are saying. If Mark 16:9-20 is unreliable, then what other scriptures are?

What you are saying is not the faith of God's elect. We believe every scripture is from the mouth of God, every single word. Some doctrines are based upon a single word~need help?

Red Baker, I was just reading some of your posts. My first thought is: You really like to hear yourself talk. Second, you said that you are not associated with any church, which is a violation of Hebrews 10:25. So if you can't even obey that, why should anybody even listen to you? Third, you misinterpreted 2 Peter 1:20: "... that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation. That means that no scripture was man-made, i.e. from his own ideas or thoughts, which verse 21 plainly states. It DOES NOT mean that we are not allowed to have a personal understanding of what a particular verse says. Fourth, I agree with Rockson, that we detect some Calvinism coming up sooner or later, which is a false doctrine. I don't know for sure because I'm not going to waste my time reading the rest of your "book"- oops, I mean posts. Fifth, you give the impression that you are only one of precious few, who actually, accurately, looks at ALL scripture, and ONLY relies on the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the CORRECT interpretation. That's called arrogance. With those 5 red flags, I'll move on to listening to someone who is humble and actually understands the scripture, and accurately interprets it, and even obeys it.

 

[Red Baker]

Red Baker, I was just reading some of your posts. My first thought is: You really like to hear yourself talk.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you are so wrong.

Second, you said that you are not associated with any church, which is a violation of Hebrews 10:25. So if you can't even obey that, why should anybody even listen to you?

dwight~there are a few scriptures that command us to withdraw ourselves from certain type of religious men, and if that was so then when those scriptures were written, so much are they so now.

2nd Timothy 3:1-5~"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

But, there are more, pretty sure you would not accept them from me. If one truly understood the intended interpretation given by Christ through Matthew and Luke, then it is not only our duty to withdrawn, but our duty to warn other not to enter therein! Matthew 24:16 cp. Luke 21:21.

Third, you misinterpreted 2 Peter 1:20: "... that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation. That means that no scripture was man-made, i.e. from his own ideas or thoughts, which verse 21 plainly states. It DOES NOT mean that we are not allowed to have a personal understanding of what a particular verse says.

I have no clue what you are attributing to me, when I teach that Peter meant exactly what you are saying, no problem from me on that interpretation. You need to go back and see what I said, or give me the reference of what you are talking about and I will do it for you.

Fourth, I agree with Rockson, that we detect some Calvinism coming up sooner or later, which is a false doctrine. I don't know for sure because I'm not going to waste my time reading the rest of your "book"- oops, I mean posts.

If by Calvinism you mean that I believe in unconditional salvation by God's grace through the obedience of Jesus Christ alone, then I'm guilty as charged.

Fifth, you give the impression that you are only one of precious few, who actually, accurately, looks at ALL scripture, and ONLY relies on the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the CORRECT interpretation. That's called arrogance.

Whether or not I'm one of the few, God will judge. Yes, I do look to the scriptures alone and trust in God to reveal his hidden truths to me~at times, they are slow coming, and generally over a period of time, up to months even years! We all will die holding to errors, yet, I desire to be as close to the truth as I can, even though I truly deserve none.

With those 5 red flags, I'll move on to listening to someone who is humble and actually understands the scripture, and accurately interprets it, and even obeys it.

dwright, you can, and guess what................ that does not affect me in the least, it will not make either one of us the better, or the worse, for we all must give account of own selves to God, using the talents he has graciously given to men. Truly, my little talents are very small in comparison to many others I have met and read behi~God being my witness.

 

[Bubba]

Precious friend, yes, as I used to be one of them, until I got out of traditions of religions, and, into
God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, and found and studied ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism. Thus,
I cannot, in good conscience toward God, change His Word to say, that for today, Under Grace,
that He Has "Two" baptisms for the Body Of Christ.

Brother In Christ, thanks for your valuable input.

Amen.

I have any problem with getting baptized I remember the day I was Baptized. I remember today I received a gift to the holy spirit of speaking in tongues. It's all good.

 

[TomL]

I have any problem with getting baptized I remember the day I was Baptized. I remember today I received a gift to the holy spirit of speaking in tongues. It's all good.

It is the baptism en the holy Ghost which places one into the body of Christ and is therefore saving

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.