Mark 16:16~"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[TomL]

So there are no Scriptures that are more holy, or authoritative than any other Scripture?
Then why do you accept some Scripture and refuse other Scripture?

If in one verse God says, "He who believes will be saved" (John 3:16). But in another verse He says, "He who repents will be saved" (Acts 3:19). Why do you accept the first and reject the second? And still again, God says, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16), He who repents and is baptized will be saved" (Acts 2:8), yet you reject this out of hand as blasphemy, because you believe more in Eph 2:8-9 than you do in Mark or Acts.

If you accept all Scripture as having the same authority, and the same importance, then you cannot just sweep these passages away because they do not agree with your preconceptions. You must modify your preconceived doctrine to accept and encompass these passages as well as all other passages that speak on salvation.

I don't. I apply them to their particular circumstances in harmonization with all of scripture

Why do you deny dozens of verses which show salvation and forgiveness upon faith?

 

[Doug Brents]

I don't. I apply them to their particular circumstances in harmonization with all of scripture

Why do you deny dozens of verses which show salvation and forgiveness upon faith?

I do not deny any of those verses. But I define faith Biblically, and understand that it MUST include all the things that God says lead to salvation.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes Rom 10:9-10 into a lie.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes Acts 2:38 into a lie.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes John 3:5 into a lie.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes Mark 16:16 into a lie.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes 1 Pet 3:21 into a lie.

 

[TomL]

I do not deny any of those verses. But I define faith Biblically, and understand that it MUST include all the things that God says lead to salvation.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes Rom 10:9-10 into a lie.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes Acts 2:38 into a lie.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes John 3:5 into a lie.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes Mark 16:16 into a lie.
If salvation is received when one only gives intellectual assent (belief), then that makes 1 Pet 3:21 into a lie.

Yes you do

If it is stated you pass from death to life upon faith and you say they are not passed from death to life you deny what the scripture states

If the bible says all who believe in him receive remission of sin and you say no not unless they are baptised you falsify that verse

and you do so time and time again

Further, you desperately try to move the goalposts by speaking of mental assent which neither I nor the scripture spoke of.

 

[Truther]

LOL

Water is not a part of the gospel

1 Corinthians 15 (KJV 1900) — 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? 30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. 33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. 34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

There is no water in it

Water is not part of the gospel? Why did John the Baptist baptize? Why was Jesus baptized? Why did the apostles baptize? Why did Jesus commission them to go and baptize all nations? I think your gospel is a different gospel than the Apostles gospel.
Your gospel is a new gospel. It’s called modernist.

 

[Truther]

Yes

And surprise by a church of Christ

The very first church I attended after having had repented, because they claimed to be non denominational

And I knew no better.

You need to be rebaptized in the name of Jesus Christ. The name of the son is not son, but Jesus. You might as well be baptized in my name since I am a father and a son. You did at the Catholic way.
Thou art the man.

 

[Truther]

You take it wrong

Again unless you want to argue over baptismal formula and a verse I believe you misunderstand

In the name of the lord is not a formula but a statement it is by his authority

As he stated

Matthew 28:19–20 (KJV 1900) — 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

What is the name of the son per Matthew 28:19?

 

[TomL]

Water is not part of the gospel? Why did John the Baptist baptize? Why was Jesus baptized? Why did the apostles baptize? Why did Jesus commission them to go and baptize all nations? I think your gospel is a different gospel than the Apostles gospel.
Your gospel is a new gospel. It’s called modernist.

It wasn't because it was the gospel. Paul had not included water baptism in the gospel he preached

Baptism is a command of Christ

Matthew 28:19 (ESV) — 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

that is sufficient reason to practice it.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes you do

If it is stated you pass from death to life upon faith and you say they are not passed from death to life you deny what the scripture states

I didn't say they had not passed from death to life. I said that faith requires action, and without action there is no faith. Yes, when a person has faith, then they pass from death to life. But if they don't have faith, then they do not pass from death to life.

If the bible says all who believe in him receive remission of sin and you say no not unless they are baptised you falsify that verse

Not at all. Belief is faith, and without action there is no faith. Jesus does not save those who do not obey Him, and He commanded that those who believe and are baptized will be saved. That is HIS command, not mine.

Further, you desperately try to move the goalposts by speaking of mental assent which neither I nor the scripture spoke of.

You say that all that is required is "belief". So please tell me what you mean by "belief".

 

[TomL]

What is the name of the son per Matthew 28:19?

The name of the son does not appear in Mat 28:19

And it is not a formula one has to repeat. It is a notation of the source of authority

 

[Truther]

I think I need to start a thread called “what is the name of the son per Matthew 28:19?”. This would be fascinating to watch people try to answer it.
I did that thread on CARM and nobody could answer it. This is amazing and a phenomenon to me.

 

[Truther]

The name of the son does not appear in Mat 28:19

And it is not a formula one has to repeat. It is a notation of the source of authority

Tom, what is the name of the son. Do you know what the sons name is?

 

[TomL]

I didn't say they had not passed from death to life. I said that faith requires action, and without action there is no faith. Yes, when a person has faith, then Yeah you do

You state they are niot saved until water baptism

they pass from death to life. But if they don't have faith, then they do not pass from death to life.

Irrelevant to the issue regarding baptism

Faith preceeds any act it leads to

Not at all. Belief is faith, and without action there is no faith. Jesus does not save those who do not obey Him, and He commanded that those who believe and are baptized will be saved. That is HIS command, not mine.

Wrong faith pre-exist its actions

You say that all that is required is "belief". So please tell me what you mean by "belief".

No I did not say that


Faith trust is what is required

 

[Truther]

Can anyone watching this thread please Tell me what the son’s name is per Matthew 28:19?

 

[TomL]

Tom, what is the name of the son. Do you know what the sons name is?

Jesus

Any other questions

 

[Truther]

Jesus

Any other questions

So, you said you were baptized in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Ghost. Were you baptized in the name of Jesus or in the name of the son?

 

[Truther]

If somebody says, I baptize you in the name of the son and they don’t say Jesus, they are lying to you.

 

[Truther]

And I mean, they are a lyin dog face pony soldier

 

[TomL]

Can anyone watching this thread please Tell me what the son’s name is per Matthew 28:19?

Do you not understand that in the name of refers to the authority of the person

In this case the authority of the triune God

Yahweh who manifests eternally, simultaneously, equally as Father, Son and holy Ghost

 

[Truther]

Do you not understand that in the name of refers to the authority of the person

In this case the authority of the triune God

Yahweh who manifests eternally, simultaneously, equally as Father, Son and holy Ghost

So you think the name of the son is also son?

 

[Truther]

If Jesus commanded you to baptize somebody in the name of the son, would you say son or Jesus when obeying his command?