It could also mean, reasonably, that no one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit just as it says.
John Piper: Born again through faith in the gospel
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
I just showed two ways the verse can be understood, just as you stated, without proving one must first be regenerated before believing.
Such a theology, however, is refuted by scripture
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief?
All he would have to do is not regenerate them if your theology were true.
Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
This verse would be untrue if regeneration was first required
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Are you going to claim God's regeneration is temporary?
And I showed exactly what it says. No man calls Christ but by the Spirit. NO MAN. I will bow out and leave you to spin it away. Have fun
Again, there is no mention of regeneration there, and I showed two ways the verse can be understood without any need for regeneration and as shown, your theology is contrary to
and you did not deal with it
brightfame52
Well-known member
There is no Faith in the Gospel until after being born again. Once one is born again of the incorruptible seed, the Logos of God, they will be sent the Gospel 1 Pet 1:23-25
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed[Adam], but of incorruptible seed[Christ], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Everyone of God’s chosen people are in time quickened by the Holy Spirit, and born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever
Christ has a seed He died for Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
So everyone of that seed will be born of Him, the Incorruptible Seed, the Last Adam, hence then the word rema word of the Gospel will be preached to them
Notice Vs 25 is referencing the ones born again in Vs 23 of 1 Peter 1
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed[Adam], but of incorruptible seed[Christ], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Everyone of God’s chosen people are in time quickened by the Holy Spirit, and born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever
Christ has a seed He died for Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
So everyone of that seed will be born of Him, the Incorruptible Seed, the Last Adam, hence then the word rema word of the Gospel will be preached to them
Notice Vs 25 is referencing the ones born again in Vs 23 of 1 Peter 1
Sorry faith precedes life
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
regeneration. The manifestation of God’s *election, regeneration refers specifically to the new birth given by the Holy Spirit, bringing life to those who were spiritually dead.
Kelly M. Kapic and Wesley Vander Lugt, Pocket Dictionary of the Reformed Tradition (The IVP Pocket Reference Series; Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic, 2013), 100–101.
Regeneration. The Holy Spirit’s work of giving new life to the sinner who repents and believes in Jesus.
Stanley M. Horton, ed., Systematic Theology: Revised Edition (Springfield, MO: Logion Press, 2007), 651.
Using the verses quoted above, we have defined regeneration to be the act of God awakening spiritual life within us, bringing us from spiritual death to spiritual life
Wayne A. Grudem, Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine (Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; Zondervan Pub. House, 2004), 702.
RegenerationConcept
The transformation of a person’s spiritual condition from death to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Logos factbook
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. (all agree quickening - being made alive speaks of regeneration when spoken of the physically living)
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Of course unbelief does not profit so it must be through faith
Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.through - dia instrument or means in the genitive case - Vines
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
God regenerates those he has forgiven
foregiveness requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You ignored all this
Sorry faith precedes life
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
regeneration. The manifestation of God’s *election, regeneration refers specifically to the new birth given by the Holy Spirit, bringing life to those who were spiritually dead.
Kelly M. Kapic and Wesley Vander Lugt, Pocket Dictionary of the Reformed Tradition (The IVP Pocket Reference Series; Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic, 2013), 100–101.
Regeneration. The Holy Spirit’s work of giving new life to the sinner who repents and believes in Jesus.
Stanley M. Horton, ed., Systematic Theology: Revised Edition (Springfield, MO: Logion Press, 2007), 651.
Using the verses quoted above, we have defined regeneration to be the act of God awakening spiritual life within us, bringing us from spiritual death to spiritual life
Wayne A. Grudem, Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine (Leicester, England; Grand Rapids, MI: Inter-Varsity Press; Zondervan Pub. House, 2004), 702.
RegenerationConcept
The transformation of a person’s spiritual condition from death to life through the work of the Holy Spirit. Logos factbook
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. (all agree quickening - being made alive speaks of regeneration when spoken of the physically living)
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Of course unbelief does not profit so it must be through faith
Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.through - dia instrument or means in the genitive case - Vines
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
God regenerates those he has forgiven
foregiveness requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
brightfame52
Well-known member
TibiasDad
Well-known member
This is like saying that the sick will be healed and then sent to the doctor to get a prescription.
Doug
Faith means trust to what God says, essentially trust in God. It is not trust in the gospel except in the sense that the gospel is what God says to people.
Romans 10:16–17 (ESV)
16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
The first thing we get is the ability to hear the call of God through the gospel of Christ. The preaching of the gospel in other words opens our hearing -- gives us ability to hear. When we hear God's call, we come because we believe that call. We trust that voice.
I saw God acting 8 months early when I receive a gideon bible at the end of a school year. I read through the NT and came out with the conviction I needed to find a church and become a Christian. But it was only by God first calling a former roommate to himself that I came to Christ through the church God had led him to earlier that year.
Romans 10:16–17 (ESV)
16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
The first thing we get is the ability to hear the call of God through the gospel of Christ. The preaching of the gospel in other words opens our hearing -- gives us ability to hear. When we hear God's call, we come because we believe that call. We trust that voice.
I saw God acting 8 months early when I receive a gideon bible at the end of a school year. I read through the NT and came out with the conviction I needed to find a church and become a Christian. But it was only by God first calling a former roommate to himself that I came to Christ through the church God had led him to earlier that year.
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Sorry, one first must believe in Christ before being given that
John 1:12 (NASB95) — 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Galatians 3:26 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
brightfame52
Well-known member
It doesnt matter what you think its like friend, the Gospel as a word of salvation is sent to the born again. If one isnt born again, God sends it to them as a savor of death unto death.
civic
Well-known member
The gospel truth preach it brother !!!
civic
Well-known member
Amen
brightfame52
Well-known member
God sends the Gospel as a word of Salvation to the Born again, them who fear God, which none by nature do. Now who is it said that the word of salvation is sent to here Acts 13:26
Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
Only the Regenerated Fears God
TibiasDad
Well-known member
There is no reason to send the gospel to those who are born again!
In other words, the Jewish people as a whole…
Gentiles who had converted to Judaism..
That the Messiah they have been waiting for has come.
In some sense, all religions fear God. Fear, in this context, means to revere.
Doug
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TibiasDad
No, also to Gentiles. Paul preached the same sermon to the God fearing Gentiles Acts 13:42
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 ;And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
No, also to Gentiles. Paul preached the same sermon to the God fearing Gentiles Acts 13:42
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 ;And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
MTMattie
Well-known member
Posted in error
