John Piper: Born again through faith in the gospel

[Presby02]

That does nothing at all to support a belief you must be regenerated before faith

The verse can reasonable understood as requiring revelation from the Spirit or that even those who are speaking by a spirit can only say Jesus is lord if they are speaking by the Holy Spirit. An unholy Spirit will not do so.

Context involves being led by a false or unholy spirit carrying away men to dumb idols

1 Corinthians 12:1–3 (KJV 1900) — 1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

It could also mean, reasonably, that no one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit just as it says.

 

[TomL]

It could also mean, reasonably, that no one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit just as it says.

I just showed two ways the verse can be understood, just as you stated, without proving one must first be regenerated before believing.

Such a theology, however, is refuted by scripture

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?

Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief?

All he would have to do is not regenerate them if your theology were true.


Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This verse would be untrue if regeneration was first required


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Are you going to claim God's regeneration is temporary?

 

[Presby02]

I just showed two ways the verse can be understood, just as you stated, without proving one must first be regenerated before believing.

Such a theology, however, is refuted by scripture

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?

Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief?

All he would have to do is not regenerate them if your theology were true.


Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This verse would be untrue if regeneration was first required


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Are you going to claim God's regeneration is temporary?

And I showed exactly what it says. No man calls Christ but by the Spirit. NO MAN. I will bow out and leave you to spin it away. Have fun

 

[TomL]

And I showed exactly what it says. No man calls Christ but by the Spirit. NO MAN. I will bow out and leave you to spin it away. Have fun

Again, there is no mention of regeneration there, and I showed two ways the verse can be understood without any need for regeneration and as shown, your theology is contrary to

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?

Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief?

All he would have to do is not regenerate them if your theology were true.


Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This verse would be untrue if regeneration was first required


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Are you going to claim God's regeneration is temporary?

and you did not deal with it