John Piper: Born again through faith in the gospel

[synergy]

Nope. No calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit.

That phrase is associated with Paul's approval for gifts of the Spirit. Tell us more about your Pentecostal leanings. This is going to be interesting...

 

[civic]

That phrase is associated with Paul's approval for gifts of the Spirit. Tell us more about your Pentecostal leanings. This is going to be interesting...

I'll get the popcorn ready this should be good.

 

[Presby02]

yes yours hence the diversion/dodging.

Okay zoom call. And I'm dodging?

 

[TibiasDad]

It's is because of grace. LOL "For by grace are you saved".... THROUGH FAITH. Not because of faith.

Trying to hard Doug

It says “by grace” not “because of grace”. Now, dia, used with the genitive, as it is in Eph 2:8, can mean, according to Strong, “through, throughout, by the instrumentality of”, so διὰ πίστεως can be correctly translated as “by means of faith”. What is interesting, is that “by grace” is in the dative, which in this case is the dative of means or instrumentality. So the “tandem” nature of grace and faith shows that both are the means of salvation, and without either of them there is no salvation/being born again.

As for the use of because, is it not a true statement to say: Because of God’s graciousness and my belief in his graciousness, I am saved? If both are necessary, then because both are present I am saved. If Grace is a because, then faith is too, for they are both instrumental causes of salvation.

Perhaps you are trying too hard to accommodate your presupposition?


Doug

 

[civic]

It says “by grace” not “because of grace”. Now, dia, used with the genitive, as it is in Eph 2:8, can mean, according to Strong, “through, throughout, by the instrumentality of”, so διὰ πίστεως can be correctly translated as “by means of faith”. What is interesting, is that “by grace” is in the dative, which in this case is the dative of means or instrumentality. So the “tandem” nature of grace and faith shows that both are the means of salvation, and without either of them there is no salvation/being born again.

As for the use of because, is it not a true statement to say: Because of God’s graciousness and my belief in his graciousness, I am saved? If both are necessary, then because both are present I am saved. If Grace is a because, then faith is too, for they are both instrumental causes of salvation.

Perhaps you are trying too hard to accommodate your presupposition?


Doug

Great response!!!

 

[TibiasDad]

Nope. Unsupported

It’s in plain Greek and English!

Doug

 

[Presby02]

It’s in plain Greek and English!

Doug

Is it?

It says “by grace” not “because of grace”. Now, dia, used with the genitive, as it is in Eph 2:8, can mean, according to Strong, “through, throughout, by the instrumentality of”, so διὰ πίστεως can be correctly translated as “by means of faith”. What is interesting, is that “by grace” is in the dative, which in this case is the dative of means or instrumentality. So the “tandem” nature of grace and faith shows that both are the means of salvation, and without either of them there is no salvation/being born again.

As for the use of because, is it not a true statement to say: Because of God’s graciousness and my belief in his graciousness, I am saved? If both are necessary, then because both are present I am saved. If Grace is a because, then faith is too, for they are both instrumental causes of salvation.

Perhaps you are trying too hard to accommodate your presupposition?


Doug

Sure, the means of salvation is by grace, through fairh. God's chosen means

Even belief is granted by God. Salvation is 100 % of God and to Him alone goes the glory.

 

[TibiasDad]

Okay zoom call. And I'm dodging?

You see a zoom call is not a public forum, but a private conversation. Evidence that could be convincing by zoom would be just as convincing in a public discussion. In other words, zooming has no effect on whether something is true or not.


Doug

 

[Presby02]

You see a zoom call is not a public forum, but a private conversation. Evidence that could be convincing by zoom would be just as convincing in a public discussion. In other words, zooming has no effect on whether something is true or not.


Doug

No one said it did Doug. Another strawman set ablaze. LOL

 

[civic]

It’s in plain Greek and English!

Doug

Yes which proves neither Greek or English grammar is being acknowledged but deliberately being ignored to support a doctrine that’s in error.

 

[TibiasDad]

Even belief is granted by God. Salvation is 100 % of God and to Him alone goes the glory.

Grace allows for faith to be employed. God commands us to repent and believe; nowhere does scripture say that God must give us repentance and/or faith.

Salvation is all of God because he is the only one that can allow us back into relationship with him. We are the unfaithful spouse. He is the offended spouse. Only the offended party can effect reconciliation!

The offending party may want to come home, but there is no obligation on the part of the offended spouse; if they want to, it is pure grace. That is Paul’s whole point in Eph 2:8-9: Works (the efforts or desires of the offender) are meaningless because they cannot obligate God to let them come back home. Only if God wants to let them in will they be reconciled. Grace is the only means of power; faith is the only means of receptivity of that power.

In reconciliation, both parties have responsibilities, but only the offending party has and obligation to fulfill, to believe! God doesn’t have to do anything based solely upon our actions! All of God’s acts are gracious and thus, without obligation!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes which proves neither Greek or English grammar is being acknowledged but deliberately being ignored to support a doctrine that’s in error.

So it would appear! Words and their syntactical use provide meaning; meaning provides principles, and principles provide cohesion of thought.

Doug

 

[civic]

So it would appear! Words and their syntactical use provide meaning; meaning provides principles, and principles provide cohesion of thought.

Doug

Amen brother