The New birth comes after hearing/believing the gospel

[TomL]

No I'm not

Yeah you are

You are altering scripture.

There is no word “elect” in the passage, and “elect” does not mean all men.

John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

It is all men, not some men.

All drawn.

 

[TomL]

No it's right

Nope

You hold that men are saved, and then they believe the gospel.

Thus you deny any saving power in the gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[TomL]

No it's right

Your position removes all power in the gospel contrary to

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Yeah you are

No I'm not

 

[brightfame52]

Nope

Yes

 

[brightfame52]

Your position removes all power in the gospel contrary to

No it doesn't, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, that is apostle doctrine 2 Corinthians 4:3

 

[TomL]

No it doesn't, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, that is apostle doctrine 2 Corinthians 4:3

Sorry but your theology makes the gospel powerless.

Men are not saved by it.

 

[TomL]

Yes

Nope

You hold that men are saved, and then they believe the gospel.

Thus you deny any saving power in the gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

and you run from the issue

 

[TomL]

No I'm not

Yeah you are

You are altering scripture.

There is no word “elect” in the passage, and “elect” does not mean all men.

John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

It is all men, not some men.

All drawn.

 

[Kampioen]

No it doesn't, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, that is apostle doctrine 2 Corinthians 4:3

Until God preveniently unhides it to the lost. Then the lost can see it, and synergistically respond.

 

[Presby02]

You did see the word enable?

In the text? Nope. Which version?

 

[Presby02]

Sorry but your theology makes the gospel powerless.

Men are not saved by it.

Hidden does not mean powerless

 

[Jim]

No it doesn't, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, that is apostle doctrine 2 Corinthians 4:3

Luk 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost."

 

[TomL]

Hidden does not mean powerless

When no one can be made alive by believing the gospel but must first be regenerated (made alive), then there is no power in that gospel.

 

[TomL]

In the text? Nope. Which version?

The conversation went

Hearing and learning will enable men to come to Christ

Presby02 Ummm...that is exactly what I said. Its how you are drawn, not why.

You agreed with it

 

[Presby02]

When no one can be made alive by believing the gospel but must first be regenerated (made alive), then there is no power in that gospel.

Sure they is. Your regenerated and tgen its power is unleashed. Where do you come up with these rules of yours tgat are so easily debunked? Most people learn after awhile. LOL

 

[Presby02]

The conversation went




You agreed with it

I do not agree with the i seerting of the word enabled however. Nonetheless, it is the Spirit who provides understanding that enables you.

 

[TomL]

I do not agree with the i seerting of the word enabled however. Nonetheless, it is the Spirit who provides understanding that enables you.

You agreed with the statement as it was written.

However, do you imagine the drawing below is irresistible?

John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

However, in your doctrine, it is life that is provided, leading to the oddity

One receives life that he might believe to receive life.

 

[Presby02]

You agreed with the statement as it was written.

However, do you imagine the drawing below is irresistible?

John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

However, in your doctrine, it is life that is provided, leading to the oddity

One receives life that he might believe to receive life.

It is resistible, until God decides otherwise.

Spiritually dead people do not beleieve Spiritual things. Dead things do not choose to live. Speaking of a odd position.

 

[TomL]

Sure they is. Your regenerated and tgen its power is unleashed. Where do you come up with these rules of yours tgat are so easily debunked? Most people learn after awhile. LOL

Power to gain the life you have already received?

Receiving life in a manner contrary to the Bible when the Bible shows the following?

Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

I mean, do you really want to make such absurd statements as you made about making rules that are so easily debunked? Most people learn after awhile. LOL

Have you not yet learned?

Scripture refutes the belief that unbelievers are made alive