The New birth comes after hearing/believing the gospel

[TomL]

No I'm not

Yeah you are

You are altering scripture.

There is no word “elect” in the passage, and “elect” does not mean all men.

John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

It is all men, not some men.

All drawn.

 

[TomL]

No it's right

Nope

You hold that men are saved, and then they believe the gospel.

Thus you deny any saving power in the gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[TomL]

No it's right

Your position removes all power in the gospel contrary to

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Yeah you are

No I'm not

 

[brightfame52]

Nope

Yes

 

[brightfame52]

Your position removes all power in the gospel contrary to

No it doesn't, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, that is apostle doctrine 2 Corinthians 4:3

 

[TomL]

No it doesn't, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, that is apostle doctrine 2 Corinthians 4:3

Sorry but your theology makes the gospel powerless.

Men are not saved by it.

 

[TomL]

Yes

Nope

You hold that men are saved, and then they believe the gospel.

Thus you deny any saving power in the gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

and you run from the issue

 

[TomL]

No I'm not

Yeah you are

You are altering scripture.

There is no word “elect” in the passage, and “elect” does not mean all men.

John 12:32 (NASB95) — 32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

It is all men, not some men.

All drawn.