John 6 the context

mailmandan said:
Amen! Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage in John 6 when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63) Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths.

Jesus is not speaking of cannibalism here but believing in Christ unto salvation. Trusting in Him alone for salvation. Compare for example the following two verses:

John 6:47 - “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”
John 6:58 - “He who eats this bread will live forever.”

“He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “he who eats this bread” and the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is also seen in verses 40 and 54:

John 6:40 - “Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:54 - “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So, John 6 does not support the false doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it’s faith in Christ that is the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him unto salvation.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
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Calvinism imparts life (regeneration) apart from Christ and so runs afoul of

John 6:53 (NASB 2020) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

Ephesians 1:3 (NASB 2020) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
 
mailmandan said:
Amen! Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage in John 6 when He says, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63) Jesus used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths.

Jesus is not speaking of cannibalism here but believing in Christ unto salvation. Trusting in Him alone for salvation. Compare for example the following two verses:

John 6:47 - “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”
John 6:58 - “He who eats this bread will live forever.”

“He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “he who eats this bread” and the result is the same, eternal life. The parallel is also seen in verses 40 and 54:

John 6:40 - “Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 6:54 - “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So, John 6 does not support the false doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it’s faith in Christ that is the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him unto salvation.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life.

The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
Click to expand...
You've fashioned a response based upon combating transubstantiation.... Very seldom do such methods ever work. The Truth is Truth regardless of the lies told to defeat the Truth.
There are various aspects of belief. A person can believe all aspects of most anything and still "believe" such is not for them.... Which is were confession is essential.

Those that believe that the Truth is for them (agreement) ... Confess. These are entirely difference aspects of salvation. Salvation is progressive as such it requires confession and repentance. You're stuck on this nonsense that such is not a distinct operation in salvation.
 
TomL said:
Here is some added Calvinist commentary

It is not enough to hear God’s voice. He must heed it and learn it and do it. This is a voluntary response. This one inevitably comes to Christ.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Jn 6:45



Shall be all taught of God. This explains the preceding verse. It is by the teaching of his Word and Spirit that men are drawn to God. This shows that it is not compulsory, and that there is no obstacle in the way but a strong voluntary ignorance and unwillingness.



Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 248–249.
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Yet it says WILL come to me and be raised on the last day. How many drawn did not come according to the text?
 
praise_yeshua said:
You've fashioned a response based upon combating transubstantiation.... Very seldom do such methods ever work. The Truth is Truth regardless of the lies told to defeat the Truth.
There are various aspects of belief. A person can believe all aspects of most anything and still "believe" such is not for them.... Which is were confession is essential.

Those that believe that the Truth is for them (agreement) ... Confess. These are entirely difference aspects of salvation. Salvation is progressive as such it requires confession and repentance. You're stuck on this nonsense that such is not a distinct operation in salvation.
Click to expand...
I already covered confession with you in a different thread. Repentance is a change of mind and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. (Acts 20:21) Two sides to the same coin. Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:9,10) The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart TOGETHER. (Romans 10:8) You are stuck on this nonsense that "believes unto righteousness" means still lost until we confess later, which may be next week or next year. Justification (Romans 5:1) is not progressive but instantaneous.
 
Presby02 said:
Yet it says WILL come to me and be raised on the last day. How many drawn did not come according to the text?
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You miss the point it is those who hear and learn

Those who hear and learn are those drawn.

Those who hear and learn will come

it is not unconditional.
 
This verse from the OP makes me think of how we human beings have a tendency of wanting to control God, and to make our plan His plan. To read into the text from the Bible and make His Redemptive plan fit into our Theology. We forget that He is a Potter and we are the clay.

14 After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” 15 Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself. John 6:14
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TomL said:
You miss the point it is those who hear and learn

Those who hear and learn are those drawn.

Those who hear and learn will come

it is not unconditional.
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Yup, and those who are drawn WILL come. Hearing and learning is simply the mechanism God uses.
 
civic said:
It was my faith , I believed and repented. God did not believe or repent for me. God by His grace and mercy convicted me of my sins and I responded by faith and repentance.
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Did you come to faith in the flesh or in the Spirit? The Spirit right? Since nothing done in the flesh is pleasing to God.
 
Presby02 said:
I didn't say it wasn't. My point stands. Is hearing and learning how the Father draws?
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God draws by means of revelation

Those drawn are those who hear and learn

Revelation of itself does not necessitate anyone coming

those who hear and learn however will come.

There is nothing supporting unconditional election here.
 

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