John 3:16 The Most Abused Passage by Free-Willers

No we believe what we believe because scripture shows man capable of belief

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.



Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven



Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”

unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.



Mat 11:21-24 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe

Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?

Satan becomes redundant in your theology


John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.

John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony

John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief

2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As is the preaching of it.

Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?

Miracles have power to bring about faith

John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
Yet we also read "no man can come to me unless........"

"No one e seeks after God"
 
Sorry but you remain in denial

God chooses those in Christ

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

to be holy and blameless

not to be in Christ

not to be unconditionally saved

You read that into the text


One gets in Christ when they believe

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

you offer only bald denial
They don’t know what the meaning of the word WHEN is in 1:11-14

1- when they heard the gospel
2- when they believed

Ephesians 1
11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
 
Yet we also read "no man can come to me unless........"

"No one e seeks after God"
unless he has heard and learned from the father by believing Moses, believing scripture etc

And question is can man respond to a God who seeks him

but seeking God

Hosea 5:15 (KJV) — 15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.



Isaiah 45:19–20 (NASB 2020) — 19 “I have not spoken in secret, In some dark land; I did not say to the offspring of Jacob, ‘Seek Me in a wasteland’; I, the LORD, speak righteousness, Declaring things that are right. 20 “Gather yourselves and come; Come together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge, Who carry around their wooden idol And pray to a god who cannot save.



Jeremiah 29:12–14 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. 14 I will let Myself be found by you,’ declares the LORD, ‘and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you,’ declares the LORD, ‘and I will bring you back to the place from where I sent you into exile.’

Acts 17:26-27: From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out to him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Hosea 5:15 (KJV) — 15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

2 Chronicles 11:16 (KJV) — 16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.

2 Chronicles 19:3 (KJV) — 3 Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.

2 Chronicles 20:3 (KJV) — 3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.

2 Chronicles 20:4 (KJV) — 4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.

2 Chronicles 30:18–20 (KJV) — 18 For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one 19 That prepareth his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary. 20 And the LORD hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.

2 Chronicles 34:3 (KJV) — 3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.

Ezra 6:21 (KJV) — 21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

Ezra 7:10 (KJV) — 10 For Ezra had prepared his heart to seek the law of the LORD, and to do it, and to teach in Israel statutes and judgments.

Isaiah 58:2 (KJV) — 2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

Psalm 9:10 (KJV) — 10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.
 
unless he has heard and learned from the father by believing Moses, believing scripture etc

And question is can man respond to a God who seeks him

but seeking God

Hosea 5:15 (KJV) — 15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.



Isaiah 45:19–20 (NASB 2020) — 19 “I have not spoken in secret, In some dark land; I did not say to the offspring of Jacob, ‘Seek Me in a wasteland’; I, the LORD, speak righteousness, Declaring things that are right. 20 “Gather yourselves and come; Come together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge, Who carry around their wooden idol And pray to a god who cannot save.



Jeremiah 29:12–14 (NASB 2020) — 12 Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. 14 I will let Myself be found by you,’ declares the LORD, ‘and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you,’ declares the LORD, ‘and I will bring you back to the place from where I sent you into exile.’



Acts 17:26–27 (NASB 2020) — 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Once again we see the Calvinists misuse and abuse of being in Christ. It’s nothing but eisegesis
 
They don’t know what the meaning of the word WHEN is in 1:11-14

1- when they heard the gospel
2- when they believed

Ephesians 1
11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
What are the first two words in Ephesians 1:11?
 
They don’t know what the meaning of the word WHEN is in 1:11-14

1- when they heard the gospel
2- when they believed

Ephesians 1
11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
 
11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Ahh......so it's all according to His purpose, which cannot be thwarted, after the council of His will. No mention of yours.

How about verse 13? It starts out in Him or in whom and then what happens?
 
As one person observes and all non calvinists affirm below the grand puppeteer who created preprogrammed robots.

When I look at the doctrine of predestination from the Calvinistic perspective I seem to come to the same final conclusion. It appears to me that in the Calvinistic approach, man is only an observer. Which would mean that my actions, thoughts, hopes, dreams, relationships, etc., are all meaningless. I call man an observer because, according to Calvin, ALL is predetermined.

There is no “choice.” There is double predestination. Life would end up being deterministic and fatalistic. I am merely a linear program executing my own destruction. What’s the use in doing anything? To me love then becomes meaningless. More importantly, how do I know for sure that I am really one of the “chosen”? Since every part of my being is totally deprived, how do I know if I really believe what I need to believe since my intellect is deprived also? I have talked to some Calvinists about this. They seem to ignore the philosophical problems I pose and move on without ever answering my questions. I get the old “That’s the way it is,” answer. It appears to me that if you follow Calvin’s view to its logical extreme, man becomes only an observer who can affect nothing. My problem arises when I conclude that if this is the case, then God sends a person to Hell for sins that God determined and orchestrated for the observer to “commit.” Why would God hold me responsible for a sin that He “programmed” me to commit?
 
they had no choice in anything in their life. No choice to get married, the have kids, a job, where they live etc...... its all predetermined, preprogrammed.

They could try to actually defend their claims with basic information that establishes their premise. They can't. Which is why they will just ignore facts while they just insist they are correct.

Verse 11 clearly establishes God's choice in His Son. This choice is a detailed expression made about Christ from the beginning to the end of Scriptures. Over and over again. We know this for a absolute certainty. God chose His Son. HE was the choice. The facts of conformity in Christ prove God's intent in the choice of Christ.

Ultimately, there no Eternal Identity to be found apart from Christ. None. It doesn't exist.
 
As one person observes and all non calvinists affirm below the grand puppeteer who created preprogrammed robots.

When I look at the doctrine of predestination from the Calvinistic perspective I seem to come to the same final conclusion. It appears to me that in the Calvinistic approach, man is only an observer. Which would mean that my actions, thoughts, hopes, dreams, relationships, etc., are all meaningless. I call man an observer because, according to Calvin, ALL is predetermined.

There is no “choice.” There is double predestination. Life would end up being deterministic and fatalistic. I am merely a linear program executing my own destruction. What’s the use in doing anything? To me love then becomes meaningless. More importantly, how do I know for sure that I am really one of the “chosen”? Since every part of my being is totally deprived, how do I know if I really believe what I need to believe since my intellect is deprived also? I have talked to some Calvinists about this. They seem to ignore the philosophical problems I pose and move on without ever answering my questions. I get the old “That’s the way it is,” answer. It appears to me that if you follow Calvin’s view to its logical extreme, man becomes only an observer who can affect nothing. My problem arises when I conclude that if this is the case, then God sends a person to Hell for sins that God determined and orchestrated for the observer to “commit.” Why would God hold me responsible for a sin that He “programmed” me to commit?

11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

It's amusing to see you get your panties all in a wad because God is sovereign. Rather than come to terms with what the scripture clearly says, you go off on a rant about robots and double predestination.

Faith is trusting God in all things, including scriptural truth that offends you. You have no faith in God.
 
11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

It's amusing to see you get your panties all in a wad because God is sovereign. Rather than come to terms with what the scripture clearly says, you go off on a rant about robots and double predestination.

Faith is trusting God in all things, including scriptural truth that offends you. You have no faith in God.
You mean useless rhetoric does not convince you?
Just like you had no choice in your salvation 😂

I had a choice. It was determined
 
Back
Top Bottom