Jesus taught Provisional Atonement

Not all disagreements lead one to doubt and rethink they very well might be headed to hell.

But that did happen this morning on another forum and it is time to just read and not reply.
I'm no longer posting on other forums these days. I check in from time to time and read a few posts but thats the extent of it for me.
 
Are you aware they are fallible human beings with opinions as varied as ours??
That is ok for scripture disagree with you as well

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
 
"you have the perspective that man does nothing in the salvation proces". Exactly. You do right? God does His part and you do yours?

Is that the difference between you and your unbelieving neighbor? You did something he did not do?

That is what you must do. But on your own you won't do. ",No man seeks after God", "No man can come to me unless.. Sheep dont look for a shepherd. Hence belief and faith are given by God.

Now you’re moving the goalposts! Nobody in my camp says that we can get there on our own! In fact, quite the opposite; the prerogative of power is always in God’s hands, for he is the offended party!

The spouse that commits adultery can beg all they want to that they want to come back home, but it is not their choice that matters, but that of their spouse!

The offended spouse has all the moral and legal rights to choose to restore the relationship and the protocols for how that is accomplished! Merit is not in play here, for the offending spouse is never “deserving” of restoration: they are guilty and void of rights to demand anything. The only thing that matters is the offended spouse’s desires and demands.

The idea that man’s involvement or desire is meritorious is ridiculous, no, ludicrous! I cannot make God do something that he has no desire to do. But fortunately, he has come to us expressing his desire to reconcile and has established but one requirement; that we trust his promises!

(Indeed, the demonstration of that trust is a manifold task of many facets, but to trust is not to say we are obligating God by our own merits! Because I believe, does not mean I am deserving or worthy of receiving Gods grace. In fact, one of the foundational principles of what I am believing is that I don’t and will never deserve his graciousness.)


Doug
 
And Phil 1 say that we are granted “to believe”, not that we are given faith. We are allowed to believe in him, not “given” faith itself.


Doug
And enabled to believe by the presentation of the word

Romans 10:14–17 (LEB) — 14 How then will they call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in him about whom they have not heard? And how will they hear about him without one who preaches to them? 15 And how will they preach, unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How timely are the feet of those who bring good news of good things.” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.
 
Romans 10:14–17 (LEB) — 14 How then will they call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in him about whom they have not heard? And how will they hear about him without one who preaches to them? 15 And how will they preach, unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How timely are the feet of those who bring good news of good things.” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.
Verse 17: "Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ."
Grammar and Morphology:
"Consequently" (ἄρα, ara):
Inferential particle, indicating conclusion or result.
"Faith comes" (ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, hē pistis ex akoēs):

ἡ πίστις: Nominative singular feminine, "faith."

ἐξ ἀκοῆς: Preposition "from" + genitive singular feminine, "hearing."
"Through the word" (διὰ ῥήματος, dia rhēmatos):

διὰ: Preposition "through," indicating means.

ῥήματος: Genitive singular neuter, "word."

"About Christ" (Χριστοῦ, Christou):

Genitive singular masculine, specifying the content of the word.

Syntax and Structure:
Main Clause: "Faith comes by hearing."

Prepositional Phrase: "Through the word about Christ" modifies "hearing," showing its source.
Conclusion
Paul constructs a logical sequence through rhetorical questions and conditional clauses to show the necessity of preaching for salvation. Each step depends on the prior, emphasizing the role of the gospel message in leading to faith. The passage connects faith, repentance, and proclamation to the central figure of Christ.

J.
 
That is ok for scripture disagree with you as well

John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?



Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief

Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed

Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Ditto
 
And Phil 1 say that we are granted “to believe”, not that we are given faith. We are allowed to believe in him, not “given” faith itself.


Doug
Yes we who are believers , not unbelievers:). It’s another misused , misguided, misleading verse twisted by Calvinists. I was guilty of that myself for decades.
 
The scripture says the saved person is "God's workmanship," (Ephesians 2:10). A person saved by Grace through Faith is Gods created workmanship Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So the totality of " by grace are ye saved through faith;" which is in the perfect passive, is Gods created workmanship of Grace.
This was stated in the OT as well Isa 43:7


Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

So the Faith there in Eph 2:8 with the definite article,isnt of the ones created, lest we blaspheme and take credit in the created wokmanship of God, which is for His Glory !
 
The scripture says the saved person is "God's workmanship," (Ephesians 2:10). A person saved by Grace through Faith is Gods created workmanship Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So the totality of " by grace are ye saved through faith;" which is in the perfect passive, is Gods created workmanship of Grace.
This was stated in the OT as well Isa 43:7


Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

So the Faith there in Eph 2:8 with the definite article,isnt of the ones created, lest we blaspheme and take credit in the created wokmanship of God, which is for His Glory !
Um it is salvation which is not of yourself unless you are going to claim God believes for you

God's workmanship is seen the salvation and the good works which proceed from it
 
Um it is salvation which is not of yourself unless you are going to claim God believes for you

God's workmanship is seen the salvation and the good works which proceed from it
Do you believe unregenerate dead in sin man contributed to Gods Creation/Workmanship ?
 
Do you believe unregenerate dead in sin man contributed to Gods Creation/Workmanship ?
You are missing the point

God's workmanship is in believers

As was stated

Um it is salvation which is not of yourself unless you are going to claim God believes for you

God's workmanship is seen the salvation and the good works which proceed from it
 
Now you’re moving the goalposts! Nobody in my camp says that we can get there on our own! In fact, quite the opposite; the prerogative of power is always in God’s hands, for he is the offended party!

The spouse that commits adultery can beg all they want to that they want to come back home, but it is not their choice that matters, but that of their spouse!

The offended spouse has all the moral and legal rights to choose to restore the relationship and the protocols for how that is accomplished! Merit is not in play here, for the offending spouse is never “deserving” of restoration: they are guilty and void of rights to demand anything. The only thing that matters is the offended spouse’s desires and demands.

The idea that man’s involvement or desire is meritorious is ridiculous, no, ludicrous! I cannot make God do something that he has no desire to do. But fortunately, he has come to us expressing his desire to reconcile and has established but one requirement; that we trust his promises!

(Indeed, the demonstration of that trust is a manifold task of many facets, but to trust is not to say we are obligating God by our own merits! Because I believe, does not mean I am deserving or worthy of receiving Gods grace. In fact, one of the foundational principles of what I am believing is that I don’t and will never deserve his graciousness.)


Doug
Sure Doug. God merely provides the way and the rest is up to you.Gods saving purposes are in some way incomplete waiting on your choice.
 
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