Atonement

[jeremiah1five]

Everything in life that concerns us has been resolved to our benefit.
The atonement Jesus Christ accomplished at His cross covered a multitude of sins.
Every sin past-present-future has been addressed and the atonement accomplished by Jesus Christ has righted every wrong we as a people undergo in life.
All our sins have been atoned for.
If in our lives, we have lied as born-again believers, Jesus Christ has paid the penalty for sin which is death, in our stead, taking every sin, or lack, or disobedience, every adultery, the worshiping of idols, a cursing tongue, stealing, false witness, evil thoughts, every sin known to God's elect has been paid for by the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on His cross. It is an atonement that was accomplished for those people whose names are in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. There is no more condemnation for our sins, our failing, our lack - everything that is anything towards God's covenant people has been addressed and atoned by Jesus Christ on His cross.
If we love someone or something more than God, this has been atoned. If we steal, or covet, or lie, or have false gods in our lives as born-again believers, it has all been atoned by Jesus Christ.

He remembers them all NO MORE.

You may do these things as born-again believers but to God His Mind towards you is the same Mind He has towards His Son and His Spirit. It is an attitude of holiness, and righteousness, and a Mind that was never tainted by your sin. But what you may not know is that it has been His attitude towards His elect people even BEFORE He created heaven, earth, and man.
God is Immutable, He never changes. When He contemplated creating a people for Himself, He contemplated them all as saved individuals.

Imagine the implications.
If you can.

 

[Dizerner]

Yes, Christ suffered the punishment our sins deserved on our behalf before God, to give us his own righteousness.

We must maintain our faith in Christ and we must have a genuine relationship with him as Lord.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes, Christ suffered the punishment our sins deserved on our behalf before God, to give us his own righteousness.

We must maintain our faith in Christ and we must have a genuine relationship with him as Lord.

That is the point I am making. We don't have to "maintain" anything. In our salvation everything is already "Finished!"
We will all become that which God has ordained and predestined - believer and unbeliever, saved and unsaved.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.

And God's will cannot be frustrated, stopped, or denied.

When looking at creation from God's perspective everything was created "good" or to His "specification." That's what the word "good" means. The word "good" in the creation narrative DOES NOT have anything to do with good as opposed to evil, or good as opposed to bad. There are no moral connotations to this word.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:10.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:12.

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:18.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:21.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31.

Quote: "and God saw that it was very good (or to specification.)"

There is no moral connotations to the word "good" because there is no morality to "light," "earth" "seas" "herb" "sun" "moon" "whales" "winged fowl" "things that creepeth." None at all.
Moral and morality are particular to man, not things. If you swim in the sea and a shark takes a bite out of your leg was it evil to do so or merely something particular to its creation, that is, a meat-eating shark doing what meat-eating sharks do naturally and that is eat meat. Sharks are not moral. They are instinctive, created "to specification" ("good") as God planed it to be. But back to my point.

Here is the passage of Scripture found in the New Covenant prophecy by Jeremiah that simply declares the end result:

For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

God forgives their (Israel's) iniquity and remembers their sin no more.

This was done on the cross. ALL Israel's iniquity past, present, and future has been forgiven eternally and finally by God and as a result of this forgiveness God remembers their sin(s) no more. Thus, according to this New Covenant - which is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ - God has forgiven all Israel's sins and iniquity and remembers their sins and iniquity no more. A full and total atonement of the Hebrew people in covenant with God. This result had already been accomplished/performed by God in the heavenly Tabernacle BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man.

A Christian who has been born-again (forgiven) who commits adultery or lies or steals, etc., these sins have already been forgiven by God in eternity "past." The Spirit dwelling in the person will 'face' conviction by the Spirit and may repent or continue in such sins according to the predestined plan of God. If they die having never repented, they still get to go with Jesus to be where He is wherever that is. In other words, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1.

You might think the part that says, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is a condition to "maintain" their salvation and it contradicts Jeremiah's "For I will forgive their iniquity, And I will remember their sin no more" but it doesn't. The "It is finished!" declared on the cross by Jesus is the end, the conclusion, the finality of Christ's work. Israel has indeed had ALL their ("sins") and iniquity forgiven and God remembers their iniquity no more.
"It (literally) IS FINISHED!" (The atonement.)

That was the eventual goal of the covenants God made with Abraham and his seed. It was completed or finished at the cross.

The three thousand souls (Hebrews) who died when Moses came back down from the mountain and saw their sinning behavior were still slated for atonement because of God's promises with Abraham and the Mosaic Covenant freshly minted at Mount Sinai for God made such promises with Abraham - and later with his seed, the children of Israel - and although they lost their lives they were an example to the children of Israel they would go the same way if they sinned as they did. They were taken out of the way by God. God's promises contained in the three Hebrew covenants (Abraham, Mosaic, and New) are the final arbiter of their eternal end. They died physically but not spiritually nor eternally because of God's promise(s.) And God does not lie. If God lied at any juncture of His relationship with Abraham and his seed, a people later identified as the children of Israel then everyone is doomed and none are saved. God concluded the Hebrew people beginning with Abraham as a saved people in eternity, in God, BEFORE God created anything. The heavenly Tabernacle is where it all took place and in order to make man (His people) eternal was to make them temporal FIRST and then bring them into eternity later at the cross as a period (punctuation.)

In this life we are only going through the motions. The atonement that really counted took place in the heavenly Tabernacle, not the earthly Tabernacle.

 

[Dizerner]

A free will faith brings application of the atonement.

Scripture clearly teaches volition, not the automation of monergism.

 

[jeremiah1five]

A free will faith brings application of the atonement.

Scripture clearly teaches volition, not the automation of monergism.

Sorry to disappoint but Scripture teaches God is the Author of salvation and that the choice as to who has permission to enter His home belongs to Him. There is no free will at all in creation. Men, angels, and God move about and have their being dependent upon their nature.
Isaiah says:
1. There is only ONE God.
2. There is NONE like Him.
3. He gives His glory (Holiness, Righteousness, Sinlessness, Omniscience, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Eternalness, etc.), to NO ONE.

Concerning the creation of man, he was created fallen short of the glory of God, or the glory that is God.
In short, the English word "sin" is the Greek word "hamartia" which means "missing the mark." What is the "mark" that was "missed"?
The glory of God, or the glory that is God.
The only Persons that can stand before a Holy God blameless is a Holy Son and Holy Spirit. Man was created fallen short of the glory of God, he "missed the mark" of God's glory and as a created being does not possess any of God's Nature of Deific Attributes. Man sinned because he was created a sinner ("missing the mark") for that is the ONLY WAY man can be created, which is why he sinned. He sinned because he is a sinner. God DID NOT reduplicate, copy, share, give, transfer His glory to man in his creation for this is impossible for God to do. Besides this man was a sinner before he disobeyed the command to not eat from the forbidden tree. Proverbs states:

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

Adding to God's spoken (or written) Word is a sin. Men do this all the time showing themselves unworthy of bearing God's Word to themselves or to others. Adam and the woman added to God's Word and showed themselves as liars when they added to God's Word in the original command. They added "neither shall ye touch it" [the fruit from the Tree.] Lying is a sin. Man sinned because he is a sinner. In order to stand before a Holy God blameless, one would have to be on par with the Creator of the universe and man falls short. Eternally.

Adam and the woman did not demand God create them. God created the man and woman of His own free will according to the good pleasure of His will.
Cain and Abel did not choose the moment of their birth, nor does anyone have the power or free will to declare the moment of their spiritual birth. Man is of the earth, earthy. The Lord is from heaven.

There is false teaching out there in the world that places man on par with God, that man is eternal, is sinless, is holy, is righteous, and that all his decisions are made from a sinless and holy nature. This is a lie. This is doing what Adam, and the woman did and that is adding to God's Word.
In order to stand blameless before a Holy God one must be God and possess all the Nature and Deific Attributes of God else, they would fall short of God's glory. IF man possessed any one of God's Deific Attributes or Nature, then man would have to possess ALL the Deific Attributes and Nature of God or else he would fall short of the glory that is God. Man sinned because he was created a sinner ("missing the mark.") There is ONLY ONE God.

Do you deny this? If the answer is no, then you are lying to yourself.
If the answer is yes, then you must bring your theology in line with the Word of God.
Man was created sinful. This is why he sinned. Christ was born Holy, and this is why He did not sin, for sin does not come from holy. Sin comes from sinner.

Salvation is of the LORD. Man cannot choose the day of their natural birth, nor can man choose the day of their spiritual birth. God determines both.

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. John 15:16.

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
John 10:28–29.

 

[Dizerner]

There is no free will at all

Error.

Post in thread 'An Article on free will'

Jan 4, 2025

I see you lack discernment because my glorious God Jesus Christ causing me to correspond about the Salvation of God is not your wicked "play-acting"; furthermore, your lack of discernment is evident based on your free-will intentional deletion of the Word of God this second time!

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart...

• Dizerner

• 

 

[jeremiah1five]

Error.

Post in thread 'An Article on free will'

Jan 4, 2025

I see you lack discernment because my glorious God Jesus Christ causing me to correspond about the Salvation of God is not your wicked "play-acting"; furthermore, your lack of discernment is evident based on your free-will intentional deletion of the Word of God this second time!

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your free-will saying "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart...

• Dizerner

• 

I posted the Scripture that declares all things in the universe are due to the hand and will of God, from salvation to the choices one makes. There is no free will. There is only God's will. And God's will is Sovereign in the universe and out of the universe.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

This settles the question.

 

[civic]

I posted the Scripture that declares all things in the universe are due to the hand and will of God, from salvation to the choices one makes. There is no free will. There is only God's will. And God's will is Sovereign in the universe and out of the universe.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

This settles the question.

so man is saved before the hearing and the believing of the gospel ? is that correct

faith is not a prerequisite to salvation ?

 

[jeremiah1five]

so man is saved before the hearing and the believing of the gospel ? is that correct

That's what I read and believe from Scripture.
Before God created anything a covenant was made among the three Persons of the Trinity. All three Persons would be intimately and personally involved in the redemption of an elect people according to the will of God.
It was the Father's Plan.
The Son implemented that Plan.
The Holy Spirit of Promise applies that Plan to God's elect people.

In the Pentateuch God instructs and commands Moses to build an earthly Tabernacle fashioned after the heavenly Tabernacle. The earthly Tabernacle was the central place of worship for the Israelites during their wilderness wanderings and until the construction of Solomon's Temple. It was a portable sanctuary where God's presence was believed to dwell among His people, and a detailed system of rituals and offerings was performed there, largely by the Levitical priests. These rituals served various purposes, including atonement for sin, expressing gratitude, and maintaining the covenant relationship with God. To understand both the earthly Tabernacle and the heavenly Tabernacle it is important to make a distinction between the eternal and the temporal.

Based on the theological framework presented in the New Testament, particularly in the Book of Hebrews, the earthly tabernacle and its rituals are seen as a "copy and shadow" of the realities in the heavenly tabernacle. Therefore, we can deduce what takes place in the heavenly tabernacle by understanding how it fulfills and surpasses the earthly model. The central activity in the heavenly tabernacle is the ongoing high priestly ministry of Jesus Christ. Here’s a breakdown of what that entails:

1. The Presentation of a Perfect, One-Time Sacrifice​

Unlike the earthly priests who had to offer animal sacrifices repeatedly, Jesus entered the heavenly tabernacle to present his own blood as a single, perfect, and eternally effective sacrifice for sins.

• Earthly Ritual: The High Priest entered the Most Holy Place once a year on the Day of Atonement with the blood of bulls and goats.
• Heavenly Deduction: Christ, as the great High Priest, entered heaven itself, the true Most Holy Place, not with animal blood but with his own. This act was not a re-sacrifice but the presentation of his completed sacrifice on the cross. This single offering secured an eternal redemption, making any further sacrifices for sin obsolete.

2. Constant Intercession and Mediation​

Jesus serves as a constant mediator and intercessor for believers before God the Father.

• Earthly Ritual: The priest burned incense on the altar, symbolizing the prayers of the people ascending to God.
• Heavenly Deduction: In the heavenly tabernacle, Jesus perpetually "lives to make intercession" for believers. He represents humanity before the Father, advocating on our behalf based on the merit of his own sacrifice. He bridges the gap between God and humanity, fulfilling the symbolic role of the incense in a real and personal way.

3. Securing Direct Access to God's Presence​

Christ's work in the heavenly tabernacle tore the veil, granting all covenant believers direct access to the "throne of grace."

• Earthly Ritual: A thick veil separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place, and only the High Priest could enter, and only once a year, under strict conditions.
• Heavenly Deduction: Christ's entry into the heavenly sanctuary removed the barrier between God and humanity. Covenant Believers are no longer kept at a distance but are invited to approach God's presence with confidence and boldness to find mercy and grace. The era of restricted access is over.

4. The Inauguration of a New Covenant​

Jesus's ministry in the heavenly tabernacle is the basis of a "new and better covenant" between God and humanity.

• Earthly Ritual: The rituals of the earthly tabernacle were central to the Old Covenant, established with Israel at Mount Sinai.
• Heavenly Deduction: Christ acts as the mediator of a New Covenant, which is superior because it is based on better promises and a perfect sacrifice. This covenant is written on human hearts, not stone tablets, and offers true forgiveness and a purified conscience, rather than just ceremonial cleansing.

Summary of Deductions: Earthly vs. Heavenly Tabernacle​

[th]

Feature​

[/th][th]

Earthly Tabernacle (The "Shadow")​

[/th][th]

Heavenly Tabernacle (The "Reality")​

[/th]​

[td]

Location​

[/td][td]

A physical, temporary tent on Earth.​

[/td][td]

The very presence of God in heaven.​

[/td]​

[td]

High Priest​

[/td][td]

Mortal, sinful Levitical priests.​

[/td][td]

Jesus Christ, the eternal, sinless Son of God.​

[/td]​

[td]

Sacrifice​

[/td][td]

Blood of animals, offered repeatedly.​

[/td][td]

The blood of Christ, offered once for all time.​

[/td]​

[td]

Activity​

[/td][td]

Daily and yearly rituals of atonement.​

[/td][td]

The ongoing presentation of a finished sacrifice.​

[/td]​

[td]

Outcome​

[/td][td]

Temporary, external (ceremonial) cleansing.​

[/td][td]

Eternal redemption and a truly purified conscience.​

[/td]​

[td]

Access to God​

[/td][td]

Restricted to the High Priest, once per year.​

[/td][td]

Direct and open access for all believers.​

[/td]​

[td]

Covenant​

[/td][td]

Administered the Old Covenant.​

[/td][td]

Inaugurated and administers the New Covenant.​

[/td]​

And there is more to account.

faith is not a prerequisite to salvation ?

From Scripture and the time we live in we have the advantage of hindsight.
The three Hebrew Covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New) there is no command or requirement of faith on the part of God's Elect. And these elect people are chosen from the foundation of the world. This occurred in God Himself, in His Mind, and agreed to by the Son and the Spirit.

As it says in Deuteronomy 29:29, "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."

And what is revealed is recorded in Scripture. Some things have been revealed and some things are still hidden or kept secret. Daniel was commanded to "shut up the words, and rseal the book, even to sthe time of the end" (Daniel 12:4), and there are prophecies still left to be fulfilled, such as things John wrote about in Revelation. A systematic approach is as follows:

Secret things will in time be revealed:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Matthew 13:35.

A Kingdom was prepared:
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34.

The giving of God's Word required the ordained death of God's prophets:
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; Luke 11:50.

The foundation of this Plan was revealed in the love of the Father and the Son:
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. John 17:24.

A people were chosen in the Name of the Son:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Ephesians 1:4.

Works were prepared before the creation of all things:
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Hebrews 4:2–3.

A sacrifice was prepared before the creation of all things:
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9:26.

The redemption of these elect people required a sacrifice without sin:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1 Peter 1:18–20.

A "book of life" was prepared containing the names of those elect souls who would be redeemed by this sinless sacrifice:
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13: 8.

There were also names of those not included in the "book of life":
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Revelation 17: 8.

This "book of life" is not a real "book" as we know books today, but is a metaphor of the Son who will give life to the elect people God ordained to life in the Son. It is for these elect people for whom the Son was sacrificed and died for.

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:1–5.

The Father ordained this work for the Son to accomplish, and with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise this work is applied to those for whom the Son died. The New Covenant was instituted by the Son and began when the Holy Spirit arrived from heaven to apply this redeeming work accomplished by the Son. On the day of the Spirit's arrival three thousand Jews were born-again. In the days that followed thousands more were born-again daily "such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47) as Christ began fulfilling His Promise to build His Church, a Church patterned after the "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the earthly Tabernacle.

The destruction of Israel and the Jewish Temple was not a judgment from God upon the Jewish/Hebrew people. From the moment of Christ's resurrection from the grave/dead God's atonement of this people was accomplished and Israel's sins were forgiven and according to Jeremiah's prophecy, "[God] remembered their sin no more."

For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

Israel's sins were judged on the cross of Christ on Calvary and accomplished by His resurrection.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, Romans 8:1.

Faith was never required in any of the three Hebrew covenants. However, obedience was required in the Mosaic Covenant. But obedience was not the foundation of anyone's salvation and redemption. What took place in the heavenly Tabernacle is what ordained the Hebrew people to eternal life.

 

[civic]

That's what I read and believe from Scripture.
Before God created anything a covenant was made among the three Persons of the Trinity. All three Persons would be intimately and personally involved in the redemption of an elect people according to the will of God.
It was the Father's Plan.
The Son implemented that Plan.
The Holy Spirit of Promise applies that Plan to God's elect people.

In the Pentateuch God instructs and commands Moses to build an earthly Tabernacle fashioned after the heavenly Tabernacle. The earthly Tabernacle was the central place of worship for the Israelites during their wilderness wanderings and until the construction of Solomon's Temple. It was a portable sanctuary where God's presence was believed to dwell among His people, and a detailed system of rituals and offerings was performed there, largely by the Levitical priests. These rituals served various purposes, including atonement for sin, expressing gratitude, and maintaining the covenant relationship with God. To understand both the earthly Tabernacle and the heavenly Tabernacle it is important to make a distinction between the eternal and the temporal.

Based on the theological framework presented in the New Testament, particularly in the Book of Hebrews, the earthly tabernacle and its rituals are seen as a "copy and shadow" of the realities in the heavenly tabernacle. Therefore, we can deduce what takes place in the heavenly tabernacle by understanding how it fulfills and surpasses the earthly model. The central activity in the heavenly tabernacle is the ongoing high priestly ministry of Jesus Christ. Here’s a breakdown of what that entails:

1. The Presentation of a Perfect, One-Time Sacrifice​

Unlike the earthly priests who had to offer animal sacrifices repeatedly, Jesus entered the heavenly tabernacle to present his own blood as a single, perfect, and eternally effective sacrifice for sins.

• Earthly Ritual: The High Priest entered the Most Holy Place once a year on the Day of Atonement with the blood of bulls and goats.
• Heavenly Deduction: Christ, as the great High Priest, entered heaven itself, the true Most Holy Place, not with animal blood but with his own. This act was not a re-sacrifice but the presentation of his completed sacrifice on the cross. This single offering secured an eternal redemption, making any further sacrifices for sin obsolete.

2. Constant Intercession and Mediation​

Jesus serves as a constant mediator and intercessor for believers before God the Father.

• Earthly Ritual: The priest burned incense on the altar, symbolizing the prayers of the people ascending to God.
• Heavenly Deduction: In the heavenly tabernacle, Jesus perpetually "lives to make intercession" for believers. He represents humanity before the Father, advocating on our behalf based on the merit of his own sacrifice. He bridges the gap between God and humanity, fulfilling the symbolic role of the incense in a real and personal way.

3. Securing Direct Access to God's Presence​

Christ's work in the heavenly tabernacle tore the veil, granting all covenant believers direct access to the "throne of grace."

• Earthly Ritual: A thick veil separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place, and only the High Priest could enter, and only once a year, under strict conditions.
• Heavenly Deduction: Christ's entry into the heavenly sanctuary removed the barrier between God and humanity. Covenant Believers are no longer kept at a distance but are invited to approach God's presence with confidence and boldness to find mercy and grace. The era of restricted access is over.

4. The Inauguration of a New Covenant​

Jesus's ministry in the heavenly tabernacle is the basis of a "new and better covenant" between God and humanity.

• Earthly Ritual: The rituals of the earthly tabernacle were central to the Old Covenant, established with Israel at Mount Sinai.
• Heavenly Deduction: Christ acts as the mediator of a New Covenant, which is superior because it is based on better promises and a perfect sacrifice. This covenant is written on human hearts, not stone tablets, and offers true forgiveness and a purified conscience, rather than just ceremonial cleansing.

Summary of Deductions: Earthly vs. Heavenly Tabernacle​

[th]
Feature

[/th][th]
Earthly Tabernacle (The "Shadow")

[/th][th]
Heavenly Tabernacle (The "Reality")

[/th]
[td]
Location

[/td][td]
A physical, temporary tent on Earth.

[/td][td]
The very presence of God in heaven.

[/td]
[td]
High Priest

[/td][td]
Mortal, sinful Levitical priests.

[/td][td]
Jesus Christ, the eternal, sinless Son of God.

[/td]
[td]
Sacrifice

[/td][td]
Blood of animals, offered repeatedly.

[/td][td]
The blood of Christ, offered once for all time.

[/td]
[td]
Activity

[/td][td]
Daily and yearly rituals of atonement.

[/td][td]
The ongoing presentation of a finished sacrifice.

[/td]
[td]
Outcome

[/td][td]
Temporary, external (ceremonial) cleansing.

[/td][td]
Eternal redemption and a truly purified conscience.

[/td]
[td]
Access to God

[/td][td]
Restricted to the High Priest, once per year.

[/td][td]
Direct and open access for all believers.

[/td]
[td]
Covenant

[/td][td]
Administered the Old Covenant.

[/td][td]
Inaugurated and administers the New Covenant.

[/td]​

And there is more to account.

From Scripture and the time we live in we have the advantage of hindsight.
The three Hebrew Covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New) there is no command or requirement of faith on the part of God's Elect. And these elect people are chosen from the foundation of the world. This occurred in God Himself, in His Mind, and agreed to by the Son and the Spirit.

As it says in Deuteronomy 29:29, "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."

And what is revealed is recorded in Scripture. Some things have been revealed and some things are still hidden or kept secret. Daniel was commanded to "shut up the words, and rseal the book, even to sthe time of the end" (Daniel 12:4), and there are prophecies still left to be fulfilled, such as things John wrote about in Revelation. A systematic approach is as follows:

Secret things will in time be revealed:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Matthew 13:35.

A Kingdom was prepared:
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34.

The giving of God's Word required the ordained death of God's prophets:
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; Luke 11:50.

The foundation of this Plan was revealed in the love of the Father and the Son:
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. John 17:24.

A people were chosen in the Name of the Son:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Ephesians 1:4.

Works were prepared before the creation of all things:
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Hebrews 4:2–3.

A sacrifice was prepared before the creation of all things:
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9:26.

The redemption of these elect people required a sacrifice without sin:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1 Peter 1:18–20.

A "book of life" was prepared containing the names of those elect souls who would be redeemed by this sinless sacrifice:
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13: 8.

There were also names of those not included in the "book of life":
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Revelation 17: 8.

This "book of life" is not a real "book" as we know books today, but is a metaphor of the Son who will give life to the elect people God ordained to life in the Son. It is for these elect people for whom the Son was sacrificed and died for.

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:1–5.

The Father ordained this work for the Son to accomplish, and with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise this work is applied to those for whom the Son died. The New Covenant was instituted by the Son and began when the Holy Spirit arrived from heaven to apply this redeeming work accomplished by the Son. On the day of the Spirit's arrival three thousand Jews were born-again. In the days that followed thousands more were born-again daily "such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47) as Christ began fulfilling His Promise to build His Church, a Church patterned after the "Great Congregation" in the desert at the time of the earthly Tabernacle.

The destruction of Israel and the Jewish Temple was not a judgment from God upon the Jewish/Hebrew people. From the moment of Christ's resurrection from the grave/dead God's atonement of this people was accomplished and Israel's sins were forgiven and according to Jeremiah's prophecy, "[God] remembered their sin no more."

For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

Israel's sins were judged on the cross of Christ on Calvary and accomplished by His resurrection.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, Romans 8:1.

Faith was never required in any of the three Hebrew covenants. However, obedience was required in the Mosaic Covenant. But obedience was not the foundation of anyone's salvation and redemption. What took place in the heavenly Tabernacle is what ordained the Hebrew people to eternal life.

so the short answer is no, faith is not necessary to be saved and one doesn't have to believe God to be saved.

unbelief can save a person if they are elect.

so all the unbelievers( Jews, Gods elect,chosen) who God allowed to die in the wilderness were actually saved, those who die in unbelief are saved. those idolators and unbelieving Jews were saved.

good to know.

lets just change the bible to say

" the just shall live by unbelief "

" by grace you have been saved by unbelief "

and lets not forget Jesus should of told all those He healed/saved it was their unbelief which saved them

I will take a hard pass on this Kool-Aid.

no thanks

 

[Dizerner]

We have access by faith into this grace in which we stand.

 

[civic]

Faith 101

1-You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17)
2-You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36)
3-No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1)
4-You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16)
5-Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17)
6-The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2)
7- You become a child of God through faith ( John 1:12-13 )
8- You are sealed with the Holy Spirit after you believe the gospel ( Ephesians 1:13 )

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

so the short answer is no, faith is not necessary to be saved and one doesn't have to believe God to be saved.

unbelief can save a person if they are elect.

so all the unbelievers( Jews, Gods elect,chosen) who God allowed to die in the wilderness were actually saved, those who die in unbelief are saved. those idolators and unbelieving Jews were saved.

good to know.

lets just change the bible to say

" the just shall live by unbelief "

" by grace you have been saved by unbelief "

and lets not forget Jesus should of told all those He healed/saved it was their unbelief which saved them

I will take a hard pass on this Kool-Aid.

no thanks

no drinkey that kool aide my friend . the jim jones leads to the davy jones . its death .
Onward in the trenches my friend .

 

[civic]

This thread caused a new one on saving faith in the doctrine section

 

[jeremiah1five]

so the short answer is no, faith is not necessary to be saved and one doesn't have to believe God to be saved.

God never required Abraham to have faith in order to receive the promises God gave him. It was all God and the only requirement for Abraham and his seed was circumcision.
The covenant was salvation enough.

unbelief can save a person if they are elect.

Unbelief was the only sin not paid for on the cross. But this was not necessary if one has God's promises of salvation through covenant.

so all the unbelievers( Jews, Gods elect,chosen) who God allowed to die in the wilderness were actually saved, those who die in unbelief are saved. those idolators and unbelieving Jews were saved.

They were in covenant with God. This is why Saul says, "and all Israel shall be saved." All Israel was covered by the Abraham Covenant and then made part of the Mosaic Covenant. But then you will say Moses hadn't given the Hebrews the Mosaic Covenant by then and you'd be technically right. But Abraham and his seed were already named in the book of life before God created heaven, earth, and man.
God is not sitting back waiting to see who will accept Jesus or not because He knows no one will accept Jesus. God is actively taking out a people for Himself and the vehicle for accomplishing this is covenant. Before God created heaven, earth, and man a lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. This is what God did in the heavenly Tabernacle. And what God did in the heavenly Tabernacle allowed a Righteous God to create an unrighteous being: man.

good to know.
lets just change the bible to say
" the just shall live by unbelief "
" by grace you have been saved by unbelief "
and lets not forget Jesus should of told all those He healed/saved it was their unbelief which saved them
I will take a hard pass on this Kool-Aid.
no thanks

One of the reasons why we have Scripture is so that we may hold to and understand right doctrine. Right doctrine goes to the root of how we are to see God and this so-great salvation. No man seeks God. Therefore, they cannot be saved. But a salvation that is of the LORD and a people are secured.

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:10–11.

John says as much:

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light [CHRIST] is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light [CHRIST], because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light [CHRIST], neither cometh to the light [CHRIST], lest his deeds should be reproved. Jn 3:18–20.

Jesus taught a man will have only one master. And that master is not Christ. A stronger man must come and bind the strong man (sin) and then he can take his goods. Christ did this on the cross and through covenant saved Abraham and his seed. Then there are those before Abraham who were obedient to God. Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Salah, Eber, etc. But before God created heaven, earth, and man there was a covenant among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to create man and from man take out a people for Himself.
If you study the covenants, you will find that none of them require faith.
The Abraham Covenant required circumcision. The Mosaic Covenant required obedience. And the New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ. Jeremiah says nothing about faith being required of the House of Israel and the House of Judah. But he does say that in this covenant that the iniquities of the Hebrew people of twelve tribes will be forgiven and their sins remembered by God "no more."
Israel is no longer condemned. Christ has atoned their sins. All of them.
This was done in eternity and played out in time. It was done before God created anything.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13: 8.

Saul understood this. Jesus taught this. Eternal life for the Hebrew people was their inheritance.

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Matthew 19:16–22.

This interchange between Jesus and this man is also found in Mark and Luke. The question is one of the man's inheritance. An inheritance of eternal life. Notice Jesus directs the man to the Law of Moses and then instructs him to obedience. The man's possessions did not keep him from his inheritance as a descendant of Abraham. He very well would have been among the three thousand Jews that were born-again on the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost.) But it was the command Jesus gave the man to follow Jesus. This is the same command Jesus gave to several of His disciples. Jesus told Peter and Andrew "Follow me." And this command was not wasted. In time the man did follow Jesus and when the disciples along with Barnabas sold their possessions to assist the poor this man obeyed Jesus. But something else Jesus said after this encounter with this man when a couple of Jesus' disciples asked Jesus "Who then can be saved"?
Jesus' reply:

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this (being saved) is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Matthew 19:25-26.

Salvation is of the LORD.
Salvation is of the Jews.
And this salvation that is impossible with men to accomplish is possible with God.
No one can be saved unless they are first in covenant with God. God saves through covenant. Genesis to Revelation is a record of that covenant salvation given by God.

 

[Dizerner]

There is no free will.

I put Scripture above your faulty opinion.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I put Scripture above your faulty opinion.

How does free will exist with passages like these?

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. John 15:16.

10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:10.

Having a will to do things is not free will unless one has the power to make those things happen. Did Adam have free will to come into existence on his own volition? Do babies have a free will to determine their conception as well as the moment of their birth?

It was God's will that spoke all things into existence. Can Adam will the same? Can Adam will to create and speak things into existence as God did? Can man like the leopard change its own spots?
Can one will themselves into holiness that God would honor? What man or woman has the will to command the Holy Spirit to baptize them into the body of Christ?

1 Thus saith the LORD,
The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool:
Isaiah 66:1.

The Bible declares the earth is God's footstool.
The assertion that the "earth is His footstool" is a declaration of God's supreme authority and majesty, found in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. This powerful imagery emphasizes that the entire world is subject to God's dominion.

Does any man have the will to override God's will in anything? Can a man will the Holy Spirit to save them? Can any man will themselves to be baptized into the body of Christ and to will to choose their place in the body and their own calling to fulfill? Can a man will to give themselves their spiritual gifts? Can a man will to bring a dead person to life who has been in the grave four days as Lazareth was? Did Lazarus will himself alive and to will the stone that shut him into his grave/tomb to open?

True "free will" must also include the power to make what one wills to happen in this life. Man's will is subservient to God's will for only God can raise the dead from their graves or tombs. It is God who set man's boundaries in this life. Man can do nothing, and his will accomplishes nothing unless he has the power to bring what they will into existence. Believing that man has a free will is a false belief that has no ultimate power or ability to will things into existence. This false belief that man has free will was shot down by God.


1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man;
For I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?
Or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?
Or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 Or who shut up the sea with doors,
When it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof,
And thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place,
And set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further:
And here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days;
And caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
That the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal;
And they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden,
And the high arm shall be broken.

16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea?
Or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee?
Or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth?
Declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth?
And as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof,
And that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born?
Or because the number of thy days is great?
Job 38:1–21.

The same ignorance that man has a free will infected the thoughts of Job who actually believed he had the will to stop his afflictions and to change its outcome. It was the arrogance of men that believe they have a will that is free to do or not do a thing when it is God's will to cause Job to undergo his afflictions. Not even fallen angels like Satan had the will and power to actually invade heaven and to overthrow God. He was immediately "cast down to the pit" who thought he had the will and the power to usurp God's will and power over His own creation.
Free will in man is an illusion. When man can do what God can do is the day all hell breaks loose upon creation and the universe for man would also need to possess the Wisdom and Knowledge and Power of God in order to maintain the order and working of creation as set forth by the will and power of God upon creation.
It all comes down to this one thing for those that believe they have free will: ARROGANCE. PRIDE.
To believe man has free will can only result in only one final conclusion: a FALL.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Faith 101

1-You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17)

Faith is a gift of God. No man has faith. Even man has a faith that does nothing without works to follow and those that are gifted of anything of God are those who are already in covenant to receive those things God has prepared to those that love Him. And even love is a gift of God.

2-You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36)

Being in covenant with God is the basis of salvation.

3-No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1)

Men have no faith. Dead men do not and cannot have a faith that God can honor while being dead.

4-You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16)

But it is not men's faith by which they are justified. It is Christ's faith that God honored and through which anyone is saved.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 2:16.

5-Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17)

This dwelling is a covenant promise of God to the Hebrew people.

6-The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2)

And the Spirit was promised to Israel alone (Joel) through covenant blessing.

7- You become a child of God through faith ( John 1:12-13 )

It is not your faith by which you are saved, but by the faith of Jesus Christ who believed God for you since men were dead in trespasses and sin. Lazarus laid in the grave until it was the faith of Christ who believed God for Lazarus' coming out of the grave. Lazarus would still be in the grave and could do nothing - even to have faith - to come out of his tomb.

8- You are sealed with the Holy Spirit after you believe the gospel ( Ephesians 1:13 )

And the Holy Spirit of Promise was PROMISED TO ISRAEL according to Joel:

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
(upon all Hebrew flesh)
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids
In those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth,
Blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
Before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:
For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance,
As the LORD hath said,
And in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Joel 2:27–32.

And as David said, "no man can approach unto thee unless thou [God] wills it." Faith is a gift given to those already in covenant with God.

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest,
And causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts:
We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house,
Even of thy holy temple.
Psalm 65:4.

God chooses who "dwells in His courts" and in His "holy Temple."
And once chosen they are "satisfied with the goodness of God's house."
All these things are among the blessings and covenant promises given first to Abraham and then to his seed. This is why salvation - and everything that accompanies salvation - is from the LORD.
Man has no will or power over the natural or the spiritual realm.
Man can have all the faith in the world - and it will be a dead faith - but everything men have is from the Lord.
Man cannot change the height of their stature nor the hairs on their head.
Babies do not have faith to be born nor the faith as men to be born-again. What happened at Pentecost was God fulfilling His promise to Israel. And He did it "in His time" just as the song says.
No man has ever commanded the Holy Spirit to baptize them into the body of Christ. These are all acts of God, not men. By being our substitution Christ had the faith men lacked to go boldly to the throne grace and find help in their time of need. And what Christ secured in the stead of His people received a kingdom and the authority to gift others with crowns of life and righteousness as He had. You and I are bought with a price. Everything we have in life is given to us of God through Christ. Christ offered Himself and secured from God everything we have in God.
Like Lazarus we were all dead and lifeless in the grave until Jesus cried out, "Come forth!" And had Christ not signify to whom those words were commanded of, all graves would have opened, and everyone everywhere would rise from their graves.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:4–10.

 

[Dizerner]

How does free will exist with passages like these?

Did you not even look at the link? I'll add it here.

Ever heard the phrase "free will is not in the Bible?" This is a misleading assertion made by many, as if only a certain specificity of statement can communicate an idea. But I do not accept the Trinity because it is explicitly declared in Scripture, but rather that it is in inevitable deduction from the stated data. Thus there is no shame or wrong in any idea not being stated as clearly as it could possibly be stated, when it can be clearly deduced. Hence, the philosophical notion of libertarian freedom is under the same umbrella, for just as the Trinity is deduced from Scripture logically, and not explicitly stated, so libertarian free will can also be conclusively deduced from Scripture.

First let's talk a little about what libertarian free will is not—

1. It's not the ability to do absolutely anything.
2. It's not the guarantee of no influencing forces (as long as not completely coercive).
3. It's not the ability to produce self-righteousness (falls under a specific instance of #1).
4. It is not randomness (this straw man caricature would mean choice is not under control of an agent).

Free will is the limited ability to select between certain limited options as ordained and circumscribed by God's created order. Just as the Trinity can be deduced from whatever passages you want to cite, so true autonomous decision can be from this passage (as well as hundreds of others, but one passage is sufficient and a good example). So let's take a fairly mundane seeming passage and extrapolate the ideas it contains.

3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, "Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife."
4 But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, "Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also?
5 "Did he not say to me,`She is my sister '? And she, even she herself said,`He is my brother.' In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this."
6 And God said to him in a dream, "Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
7 "Now therefore, restore the man's wife; for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours." (Gen 20:3-7 NKJ)

We have to set this up so bear with me. At first God says to Abimelech that he is a dead man because he has sinned. Abimelech answers and implies that this is too harsh a judgment in the light of his current limitations of understanding the situation. Abimelech then declares he is innocent. In verse 6, God does not say Abimelech is wrong, but rather affirms that Abimelech is actually correct on this issue. He has done this "in the integrity" of his heart. Then God says he has somehow kept Abimelech from sinning so far as an act of mercy because of ignorance. But now Abimelech is no longer considered ignorant, as he has been warned, so we end with verse 7 in which God lays out two different outcomes that are both indicated to be a real possibility and determined by the choice Abimelech makes.

Honesty is an attribute of God, and honesty in communication is necessary if you want to be understood in the way you intend to say something. "God is not a man that he should lie," says the Divine. That is, in general, if you wish to convey information and not mislead someone, you actually have to mean what you say. We cannot claim Abimelech would understand this passage in any deterministic way, and if determinism were true it would not be beyond the capacity of God to phrase this in a deterministic way, or even to explain that Abimelech actually has no libertarian choice in the matter and there are not two real, viable outcomes as God indicated, where Abimelech either "surely dies" or he will in fact "live." Although he was declared dead already, this indicates he had a pending "death sentence," or ban, on him.

Now the truth about determinism is a sneaky one, because no matter how you phrase something to sound like autonomy, you can always just claim it only sounds that way as some kind of illusion. But the default position of any text should not to be take the plain meaning as an illusion, but to take it as meaning what it says, unless we have strong overriding context. With proponents of determinism, a small percentage of Bible verses that could possibly be interpreted as deterministic are used as an overriding lens to reinterpret a much, much larger majority percentage of thousands of passages that are made to sound deliberately as if choice were two or more actual outcomes decided by the individual, instead of pre-decided by God.

And this overriding presupposition becomes so second nature to the Calvinist, that, in my interaction with determinists anyway, they almost always seem to think it's the natural way to interpret choices in Scripture as necessarily deterministic, when that's actually not the default way to understand them.

If God wanted to convey a deterministic meaning of any kind to Abimelech it would have been easy, simple and clear to simply phrase what God says to Abimelech in a deterministic way, "I have chosen you to sin," or "you will go on and do what I have decided for you to do," or "you must fulfill your destiny and this is what it will be." God does not choose any of those easy options which would be honest and clear, to phrase something deliberately in a way that sounds non-deterministic, and this is not by any definition the honest way of communicating. Abimelech, if Calvinism were true, would have been misled by God.

So although we have verses where Jesus says "the only true God" in reference to his Father, we take the higher percentage of verses and reinterpret the lower percentage of verses, to justify our interpretation that Jesus himself is the only true God as well. In the same way Scripture actually ends up directly supporting the idea of libertarian freedom, instead of directly opposing the idea of libertarian freedom, as many Calvinists contend.

So by using the exact same "hermeneutics" we would use to come to a deduction of the Trinity, we come with this consistent and predominantly used method of interpreting the Bible, to describing choices as multiple potential outcomes determined by the agent.

A Calvinist cannot "walk through the text" when reading from "the original Hebrew" and stay a consistent exhaustive divine determinist in Genesis chapter 20.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Did you not even look at the link? I'll add it here.

Ever heard the phrase "free will is not in the Bible?" This is a misleading assertion made by many, as if only a certain specificity of statement can communicate an idea. But I do not accept the Trinity because it is explicitly declared in Scripture, but rather that it is in inevitable deduction from the stated data. Thus there is no shame or wrong in any idea not being stated as clearly as it could possibly be stated, when it can be clearly deduced. Hence, the philosophical notion of libertarian freedom is under the same umbrella, for just as the Trinity is deduced from Scripture logically, and not explicitly stated, so libertarian free will can also be conclusively deduced from Scripture.

First let's talk a little about what libertarian free will is not—

1. It's not the ability to do absolutely anything.
2. It's not the guarantee of no influencing forces (as long as not completely coercive).
3. It's not the ability to produce self-righteousness (falls under a specific instance of #1).
4. It is not randomness (this straw man caricature would mean choice is not under control of an agent).

Free will is the limited ability to select between certain limited options as ordained and circumscribed by God's created order. Just as the Trinity can be deduced from whatever passages you want to cite, so true autonomous decision can be from this passage (as well as hundreds of others, but one passage is sufficient and a good example). So let's take a fairly mundane seeming passage and extrapolate the ideas it contains.

3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, "Indeed you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife."
4 But Abimelech had not come near her; and he said, "Lord, will You slay a righteous nation also?
5 "Did he not say to me,`She is my sister '? And she, even she herself said,`He is my brother.' In the integrity of my heart and innocence of my hands I have done this."
6 And God said to him in a dream, "Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
7 "Now therefore, restore the man's wife; for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours." (Gen 20:3-7 NKJ)

We have to set this up so bear with me. At first God says to Abimelech that he is a dead man because he has sinned. Abimelech answers and implies that this is too harsh a judgment in the light of his current limitations of understanding the situation. Abimelech then declares he is innocent. In verse 6, God does not say Abimelech is wrong, but rather affirms that Abimelech is actually correct on this issue. He has done this "in the integrity" of his heart. Then God says he has somehow kept Abimelech from sinning so far as an act of mercy because of ignorance. But now Abimelech is no longer considered ignorant, as he has been warned, so we end with verse 7 in which God lays out two different outcomes that are both indicated to be a real possibility and determined by the choice Abimelech makes.

Honesty is an attribute of God, and honesty in communication is necessary if you want to be understood in the way you intend to say something. "God is not a man that he should lie," says the Divine. That is, in general, if you wish to convey information and not mislead someone, you actually have to mean what you say. We cannot claim Abimelech would understand this passage in any deterministic way, and if determinism were true it would not be beyond the capacity of God to phrase this in a deterministic way, or even to explain that Abimelech actually has no libertarian choice in the matter and there are not two real, viable outcomes as God indicated, where Abimelech either "surely dies" or he will in fact "live." Although he was declared dead already, this indicates he had a pending "death sentence," or ban, on him.

Now the truth about determinism is a sneaky one, because no matter how you phrase something to sound like autonomy, you can always just claim it only sounds that way as some kind of illusion. But the default position of any text should not to be take the plain meaning as an illusion, but to take it as meaning what it says, unless we have strong overriding context. With proponents of determinism, a small percentage of Bible verses that could possibly be interpreted as deterministic are used as an overriding lens to reinterpret a much, much larger majority percentage of thousands of passages that are made to sound deliberately as if choice were two or more actual outcomes decided by the individual, instead of pre-decided by God.

And this overriding presupposition becomes so second nature to the Calvinist, that, in my interaction with determinists anyway, they almost always seem to think it's the natural way to interpret choices in Scripture as necessarily deterministic, when that's actually not the default way to understand them.

If God wanted to convey a deterministic meaning of any kind to Abimelech it would have been easy, simple and clear to simply phrase what God says to Abimelech in a deterministic way, "I have chosen you to sin," or "you will go on and do what I have decided for you to do," or "you must fulfill your destiny and this is what it will be." God does not choose any of those easy options which would be honest and clear, to phrase something deliberately in a way that sounds non-deterministic, and this is not by any definition the honest way of communicating. Abimelech, if Calvinism were true, would have been misled by God.

So although we have verses where Jesus says "the only true God" in reference to his Father, we take the higher percentage of verses and reinterpret the lower percentage of verses, to justify our interpretation that Jesus himself is the only true God as well. In the same way Scripture actually ends up directly supporting the idea of libertarian freedom, instead of directly opposing the idea of libertarian freedom, as many Calvinists contend.

So by using the exact same "hermeneutics" we would use to come to a deduction of the Trinity, we come with this consistent and predominantly used method of interpreting the Bible, to describing choices as multiple potential outcomes determined by the agent.

A Calvinist cannot "walk through the text" when reading from "the original Hebrew" and stay a consistent exhaustive divine determinist in Genesis chapter 20.

That depends on your perspective. Either God is Sovereign, or man is sovereign.

The whole of Scripture is told from the perspective of covenant. The Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets all write as men and women who are born into covenant (Isaac.) And that is the perspective for Isaac, and Moses and the other writers of the sacred text. None of the bible is written by non-covenant, unbelievers. And covenant began with God approaching Abram the Hebrew and making covenant that is to be passed down through inheritance to his children or seed. ALL the writers of the Hebrew Scripture - Genesis to Revelation - is written from the reality of people and persons who are in covenant with God. When there is narrative of any individual who has some record of their lives written of them and/or their family it is written from the perspective of covenant, and covenant that began with God. Once God made promises to Abram the Hebrew (Genesis 14:13), the story or stories picks up of the individual already in covenant with God, or individuals who were and are obedient to God, such as Noah. For there have always been two groups of people on the planet: those obedient to God and those disobedient to God. Now the question is: Who approached who?

Did man go to God - and no one can approach God unless God chooses them, to approach Him and they are already in covenant. Or did God approach man? The bottom line is this. The only free will is the free will that can not only will a thing but also possess the almighty power to make it happen, and man does not have such power to effect anything through will alone. One must also have the power to not only will a thing but possess the almighty power to make their will a reality, and man does not possess the power to do this, and if they don't have the power, then they do not have the will. For you cannot have will without power.

Man did not will God to create him. How stupid is that position? Very stupid. God willed a thing and then He brought it to pass. Man cannot do this. So, placing God's will and man's so-called will side-by-side it is clear that there is only ONE SOVEREIGN WILL in all of creation and that is God's will, for He has the power to make His will a reality.
Man does not.

Scripture tells us who believe Scripture that God is Creator of the universe and all that is in it - including evil.
Scripture also teaches us that man is subservient to sin and death. Scripture also teaches those who believe God that unless God willed man's redemption man would be eternally lost.
Well, God not only willed it but had the power to make it happen.
I choose not to exert my arrogance in the face of God to declare my will is sovereign over His.
It is when I realize who God is that my life and everything in it comes into perfect focus and I behave as one who is dependent on God rather than I possessing a will that I am dependent upon myself, and that when I die, I will be directed to my eternal resting place and not directing God or angel where I will go.
Some of us love God and obey Him, others love themselves and think more highly of themselves than they ought.
And therein is the difference.