Jesus denied being God

[synergy]

God is not a human whereas Jesus is. Two different categories. Jesus on the other hand does have genealogical fathers.

Matt 1
1This is the genealogy a of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

You're evading the question. Name the father.

That is not a Jesus exclusive. I have posted this upwards of 10 times and you seem to just be rejecting it or not reading it. Here it is again.

John 14
7If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

You continue to have reading problems. I said "Only exclusively through Jesus can one see the Father." Who else can we see the Father through?

By the very fact that Jesus received the Holy Spirit means he isn't God. He didn't inherently have that.

Acts 2:33 refers to the Father having poured out the Holy Spirit. This is mentioned in a few places that clarify exactly who did it.

False. It was Jesus who poured out the Holy Spirit.

Jesus needed to ask the Father to give the Spirit:

John 14
16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth...

Acts 1
4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with a water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

As you just admitted, we have you on record stating "Only God has the power to pour out the Holy Spirit" and it says the Father did it.

Game.
Set.
Match.

But we will continue anyway because I know from experience it's not enough to just debunk the deity once for a Trin.

That's perfectly Trinitarian because we believe in the Father also, not just in one Person doing everything.

You have just proven that Trinitarianism is idolatry.

Step 1: sitting on the Father's throne means someone is God
Step 2: Jesus' throne is God's throne

Rev 3:21 declares 2 Thrones. With this critical error of yours, you can toss the rest of your points out the window. Bible verses stay because they all promote Trinitarianism.

Step 3: Those who overcome share the throne with Jesus.
Step 4: Therefore Christians are on equal footing with Lord God Almighty
Step 5: Trinitarianism promotes sin

Revelation 3
21To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Unitarians believe that sharing the throne with Jesus does not make someone God because Jesus is not God. No idolatry in Unitarianism.

You take your man god theology too far.

Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

Jesus isn't the Lord of heaven and earth:

Matt 11
25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Jesus isn't the Holy Spirit:

Matt 12
32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.

Jesus isn't the Lord God Almighty:

Revelation 1
8“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.

Revelation 21
22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Jesus isn't YHWH:

Psalm 110
1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.

Jesus isn't the Sovereign Lord and Creator:

Acts 4
24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.
27...Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed.

Jesus, the Lamb, is not Lord God Almighty:

Revelation 21
22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Jesus isn't the True God:

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You,[the Father] the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

1 Thessalonians 1
9For they themselves report what kind of welcome you gave us, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God 10and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

Jesus is not the Father:

Matt 23
9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
God is not the Son of Man or a man:

Numbers 23
19God is not a man, that He should lie,
or a son of man, that He should change His mind.
Does He speak and not act?
Does He promise and not fulfill?

Jesus the son of Abraham:

Matt 1
1This is the record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

The Father the God of Abraham:

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.
Jesus the mediator between God and men:

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

God the Father is Jesus' Savior:

Hebrews 5
7During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and

Jesus is not the invisible God:

Colossians 1
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Jesus is not God and Father of the church:

Romans 1
7To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not the One God:

1 Corinthians 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

The Word of God is not the testimony of Jesus:

Revelation 1
2who testifies to everything he saw. This is the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 20
4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

God illuminates the city, the Lamb a lamp:

Revelation 21
23And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp.

They don't need the lamp anymore:

Revelation 22
5There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.

God isn't the son of Abraham:

Matthew 1
1This is the record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Give me one verse where Jesus explicitly says he is not God. Just one. In fact, he declared just the opposite in John 8:58.

 

[Runningman]

Sorry but you simply ignored context

John 5:19–23 (KJV 1900) — 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.



God wants you to honor the son as you honor him

You do not

Therefore you do not honor the father



Verse 23. That all men should honour the Son, &c.] If then the Son is to be honoured, EVEN AS the Father is honoured, then the Son must be God, as receiving that worship which belongs to God alone. To worship any creature is idolatry: Christ is to be honoured even as the Father is honoured; therefore Christ is not a creature; and, if not a creature, consequently the Creator. See chap. 1:3.
He that honoureth not the Son] God will not receive that man’s adoration who refuses to honour Jesus, even as he honours him.


Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 5, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 551.

That all men should honour, &c. To honour is to esteem, reverence, praise, do homage to. We honour one when we ascribe to him in our hearts, and words, and actions the praise and obedience which are due to him. We honour God when we obey him and worship him aright. We honour the Son when we esteem him to be as he is; when we have right views and feelings toward him. As he is declared to be God (Jn. 1:1), as he here says he has power and authority equal with God, so we honour him when we regard him as such. The primitive Christians are described by Pliny, in a letter to the Emperor Trajan, as meeting together to sing hymns to Christ as God. So we honour him aright when we regard him as possessed of wisdom, goodness, power, eternity, omniscience—equal with God.
Even as. To the same extent; in the same manner. Since the Son is to be honoured EVEN AS the Father, it follows that he must be equal with the Father. To honour the Father must denote religious homage, or the rendering of that honour which is due to God; so to honour the Son must also denote religious homage. If our Saviour here did not intend to teach that he ought to be worshipped, and to be esteemed as equal with God, it would be difficult to teach it by any language which we could use.
He that honoureth not the Son. He that does not believe on him, and render to him the homage which is his due as the equal of God.
Honoureth not the Father. Does not worship and obey the Father, the first person of the Trinity—that is, does not worship God


Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Luke & John (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 231–232.

Sorry you are misunderstanding the context of John 5. Jesus plainly said he does what he sees the Father doing in John 5:19. Jesus went on to briefly discuss the miracles God empowered him to do. After that, in John 5:22, Jesus said that the Father has entrusted all judgement to him so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father.

What Jesus was telling them to do was trust his judgements. This is set in the context of Jesus being accused of breaking the sabbath. Jesus had said in his defense, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." Because Jesus does what he sees God doing therefore Jesus is capable of making good judgements. John 5:27 says "And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man."

This is in regards to salvation versus potential damnation.

John 5 NIV
28“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

 

[Runningman]

That is because he was both man and God. As a man he functioned as a man

There is still the Word who became flesh who created everything that was made

and as God he sustains creation

Hebrews 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

So Jesus was only a man then.

Acts 4:23-30 contradicts your bad theology concerning the Word. It says the Sovereign Lord they prayed to is the Creator. In that same prayer they refferred to Jesus as the Creator's servant. Therefore Jesus is not the Creator.

John 1 also doesn't call the Word the Creator.

Look at it again with fresh eyes:

John 1:1-2 says that the Word was with God in the beginning. Therefore the Word and God are not the same person. John 1:3 uses the "him" pronoun to refer to the closest noun which would be God, not the Word. Therefore, this verse says God is the Creator, not the Word.

John 1 (NIV)​

2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.​

John 1:9-10 repeats this. It uses the present tense to say the True Light was coming into the world after John the Baptist was already preaching. Since the True Light was coming into the world in the present tense, this would have placed Jesus at approximately 30 years old. Jesus had already been in the world for 30 years by the time the True Light was coming into the world. The world was made through the True Light, not the Word.

John 1 (NIV)​

9The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.​

The Bible contains no verses about Jesus being the Creator. When you're ready I hope you will start listening once you see the things I am pointing out to you are true.

 

[Runningman]

And

He also sustains all creation

Hebrews 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


know any other man who does that

This passage is not about creation of the unvierse therefore it's not about upholding the universe with his words. The context is concerning the church and it actually debunks Jesus being the Creator when it's understood what it's saying.

I would first like to go ahead and knock down the fact that Hebrews 1:2 does not say God created the "worlds" or "universe" through the Son. There are already good words for the literal, physical, universe such as kosmō where the Father is said to be the Creator of the literal physical world. However, in Hebrews 1:2, we have the word aiōnas which doesn't means worlds or universe even though many Bibles perversely say it means that.

​

G165. aión ►​

​

Strong's Concordance aión: a space of time, an age Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: aión Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn') Definition: a space of time, an age Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity. HELPS Word-studies 165 aiṓn (see also the cognate adjective, 166 /aiṓnios, "age-long") – properly, an age (era, "time-span"), characterized by a specific quality (type of existence).​

So as you can see, it's pretty clear that the literal translation of Hebrews 1:2 says God made the ages by speaking through His Son in these last days. It's plain in the passage that God didn't speak through the Son in the past, when God spoke to create the universe, but rather was speaking through the prophets. In these last days is when God began speaking through His Son to make the church age/messianic age. God spoke through Jesus like a prophet like the other prophets.

The context of Hebrews 1:3 relates to Jesus being a high priest and upholding all things in the church with his words. It doesn't refer to literally all things. Doesn't match the context, doesn't match Scripture, etc. The verse Hebrews 1:4 only support the fact that Jesus is not God. Hebrews 1:4, for starters, says Jesus inherited his name and became superior to angels. This proves that what Jesus has was not inherently his in the first place, but was rather obtained later as Jesus became something he originally was not.

Read it again and see if you understand it better:

Hebrews 1 (Berean Literal Bible)
1God, having spoken long ago to our fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the ages, 3who, being the radiance of His glory and the exact expression of His substance, and upholding all things by the power of His word, through having made the purification of sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become by so much superior to the angels, as much as He has inherited a name more excellent beyond theirs.

 

[Runningman]

Wake up the issue is the personal pre -existence of Christ

You denied it

The passage refutes you

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Care to explain how that is consistent with an impersonal thing

Something you Unitarians have failed to do previously though having many opportunities

Philippians 2:5-8 sets the context as Paul instructing the church of Philippi to have the mind of Jesus. Therefore, since the members of the church of Philippi are human, what they have in their mind must be humanly obtainable. Paul was not trying to suggest that they think they are God or equal to God or else the narrative of this entire passage changes into Paul teaching Christians they are equal to God.

So Phil. 2:5 ends with a colon. I take it you are pretty good at English punctuation, so I assume you know that where there is a colon a list begins that is related to what precedes the colon. Therefore, verses 6-8 are directly related to what Paul was telling the Philippians to have in their mind. Trinitarians misunderstand this passage with prejudice, but Paul was essentially telling them that they are not equal to God, though they can be in the outward appearance of God. They should be humble servants even though they look like humans, they are indeed not of this world. They should obey God, just like Jesus did, even if it means dying on a cross.

 

[Runningman]

No read the verse

It refers either to the incarnation or the resurrection

It is not arrogance to believe what is written

Those that do not honor the son as they honor the father fail to honor the father.

PS if you do not know then study

The word incarnation is never once stated to be in Scripture even one time. In other words, the Word did not incarnate as flesh, but rather the word "became" flesh. Do a word study on the word "became" in John 1:14 and you'll find some very fascinating things about how it never describes an incarnation. It refers to the cause and effect of things, things are because they are. God spoke and created Jesus with a word, because that's how it is. God spoke... and it was so.

 

[Runningman]

Sorry the bible disagrees

You are to honor the son just as you honor the father

failing to do so you fail to honor the father

No I do not believe the Unitarians are my brothers in faith of the true God

nor do I believe those who deny Christ have his spirit in them

The passage in John 5 that refers to honoring the Father as they do the Son refers to judgement. It means we are to honor Jesus' judgements because God has entrusted judgement to Jesus. Jesus, who does what the Father does, can judge like the Father, but ultimately Jesus does not actually do the real judging. He simply judges in accordance with the will of the Father.

I would forgive you if you were a modalist, but Jesus clearly is not God. He relies on God to make the judgements. Trinitarianism is downright inexcusable in light of what Jesus said.

John 5
22For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who is not honoring the Son is not honoring the Father, the One having sent Him.
30I am able to do nothing of Myself. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My will, but the will of the One having sent Me.

 

[Runningman]

I can post many not just one

Matthew 8:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

Matthew 9:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Matthew 28:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Matthew 28:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

The Unitarian is clearly not my brother in the faith

Different seeds from different fathers. My Father is greater than all. Jesus taught us children of God that to be a true worshipper we must worship the Father in spirit and truth. There are no teachings about worshipping Jesus in spirit and truth in Scripture.

John 4 (NIV)
23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

 

[Runningman]

Totally missing the point

an impersonal thing does not have a mind, cannot think, cannot consider etc

This has nothing at all to do with the KJV

It seems you may be finally learning that there is something called personification in literature. The Bible is no exception. Let me introduce you to Proverbs 8 where wisdom, an impersonal being, has a mind, can think, and is a woman.

No need to post the entire chapter. Just begin here so you get the idea where this is going.

Proverbs 8
1Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;

 

[Peterlag]

Adam is called a “type” of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:14). The word translated as “type” in many English versions is the translation of the Greek word tupos (τύπος) which can be defined as “a type, pattern, model, or example of something else.” Although the KJV translates tupos as “figure” most of the more modern versions say “pattern” (NIV), “prototype” (HCSB), or “type” (ESV, NAB, NASB). Adam was a type, prototype, or pattern of Christ because he was fully human and began without a sin nature—and Jesus was the same: fully human and made without a sin nature. The reason no other human male after Adam could be a “type” of Christ is that we are all born with a sin nature. Adam could not be a “type” of Christ if Jesus was 100% man and 100% God because Adam did not have a “God-nature.”

The Bible says in many verses that there is only one God and “God” does not have a God. We read in Isaiah 44:6 “…there is no God besides me” and Ephesians 4:6 says there is “one God and Father of all, who is over all.” Jesus has a God in contrast to “God” who alone is God and does not have a God. Jesus spoke about his God after the resurrection to Mary Magdalene, saying “…I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God” (John 20:17). There are also verses in the New Testament that clearly speak of “God” being the “God” of Jesus Christ. Romans 15:6 says “...you can, with one mouth, glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 Corinthians 1:3, Ephesians 1:3, and 1 Peter 1:3 all say “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” So the “one God and Father” (Ephesians 4:6) is the God of Jesus Christ. The “one God” of the Bible never says He has a God because He is God.

 

[TomL]

It seems you may be finally learning that there is something called personification in literature. The Bible is no exception. Let me introduce you to Proverbs 8 where wisdom, an impersonal being, has a mind, can think, and is a woman.

No need to post the entire chapter. Just begin here so you get the idea where this is going.

Proverbs 8
1Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;

Give it up

This is not proverbs

There is no personification in Phil 2:5

Philippians 2:5–9 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

 

[TomL]

Different seeds from different fathers. My Father is greater than all. Jesus taught us children of God that to be a true worshipper we must worship the Father in spirit and truth. There are no teachings about worshipping Jesus in spirit and truth in Scripture.

John 4 (NIV)
23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

Ignoring the point

Jesus was worshiped even as the father was worshiped

Revelation 5:11–13 (KJV 1900) — 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

even in heaven

 

[TomL]

The passage in John 5 that refers to honoring the Father as they do the Son refers to judgement. It means we are to honor Jesus' judgements because God has entrusted judgement to Jesus. Jesus, who does what the Father does, can judge like the Father, but ultimately Jesus does not actually do the real judging. He simply judges in accordance with the will of the Father.

I would forgive you if you were a modalist, but Jesus clearly is not God. He relies on God to make the judgements. Trinitarianism is downright inexcusable in light of what Jesus said.

John 5
22For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23so that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who is not honoring the Son is not honoring the Father, the One having sent Him.
30I am able to do nothing of Myself. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My will, but the will of the One having sent Me.

Sorry you ignore this

John 5:16–23 (KJV 1900) — 16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Men are to honor Christ as they honor the father because he does everything the father does

Revelation 5:11–13 (KJV 1900) — 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Unitarians fail to honor the son as the father is honored, and therefore they do not honor the father

 

[TomL]

The word incarnation is never once stated to be in Scripture even one time. In other words, the Word did not incarnate as flesh, but rather the word "became" flesh. Do a word study on the word "became" in John 1:14 and you'll find some very fascinating things about how it never describes an incarnation. It refers to the cause and effect of things, things are because they are. God spoke and created Jesus with a word, because that's how it is. God spoke... and it was so.

So what

It means to become flesh

Incarnate

a. Invested with bodily nature and form: an incarnate spirit.

The bible teaches the word became flesh

John 1:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[TomL]

Philippians 2:5-8 sets the context as Paul instructing the church of Philippi to have the mind of Jesus. Therefore, since the members of the church of Philippi are human, what they have in their mind must be humanly obtainable. Paul was not trying to suggest that they think they are God or equal to God or else the narrative of this entire passage changes into Paul teaching Christians they are equal to God.

So Phil. 2:5 ends with a colon. I take it you are pretty good at English punctuation, so I assume you know that where there is a colon a list begins that is related to what precedes the colon. Therefore, verses 6-8 are directly related to what Paul was telling the Philippians to have in their mind. Trinitarians misunderstand this passage with prejudice, but Paul was essentially telling them that they are not equal to God, though they can be in the outward appearance of God. They should be humble servants even though they look like humans, they are indeed not of this world. They should obey God, just like Jesus did, even if it means dying on a cross.

You fail to deal with the issue

Christ existed in the Form of God

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


He had a mind, he had thoughts , he made himself of no reputation

Your theology claims he was an impersonal thing

An impersonal thing does not have a mind, does not have thoughts, cannot express humility

Stop running from the issue

 

[TomL]

This passage is not about creation of the unvierse therefore it's not about upholding the universe with his words. The context is concerning the church and it actually debunks Jesus being the Creator when it's understood what it's saying.

I would first like to go ahead and knock down the fact that Hebrews 1:2 does not say God created the "worlds" or "universe" through the Son. There are already good words for the literal, physical, universe such as kosmō where the Father is said to be the Creator of the literal physical world. However, in Hebrews 1:2, we have the word aiōnas which doesn't means worlds or universe even though many Bibles perversely say it means that.

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G165. aión ►​

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Strong's Concordance aión: a space of time, an age Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: aión Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn') Definition: a space of time, an age Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity. HELPS Word-studies 165 aiṓn (see also the cognate adjective, 166 /aiṓnios, "age-long") – properly, an age (era, "time-span"), characterized by a specific quality (type of existence).​

So as you can see, it's pretty clear that the literal translation of Hebrews 1:2 says God made the ages by speaking through His Son in these last days. It's plain in the passage that God didn't speak through the Son in the past, when God spoke to create the universe, but rather was speaking through the prophets. In these last days is when God began speaking through His Son to make the church age/messianic age. God spoke through Jesus like a prophet like the other prophets.

The context of Hebrews 1:3 relates to Jesus being a high priest and upholding all things in the church with his words. It doesn't refer to literally all things. Doesn't match the context, doesn't match Scripture, etc. The verse Hebrews 1:4 only support the fact that Jesus is not God. Hebrews 1:4, for starters, says Jesus inherited his name and became superior to angels. This proves that what Jesus has was not inherently his in the first place, but was rather obtained later as Jesus became something he originally was not.

Read it again and see if you understand it better:

Hebrews 1 (Berean Literal Bible)
1God, having spoken long ago to our fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the ages, 3who, being the radiance of His glory and the exact expression of His substance, and upholding all things by the power of His word, through having made the purification of sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become by so much superior to the angels, as much as He has inherited a name more excellent beyond theirs.

Apparently you are ignorant of the fact aion by means of metonomy can refer to the world

2. by meton. of the container for the contained, οἱ αἰῶνες denotes the worlds, the universe, i. e. the aggregate of things contained in time, [on the plur. cf. W. 176 (166); B. 24 (21)]: Heb. 1:2; 11:3; and (?) 1 Tim. 1:17; [Rev. 15:3 WH txt.; cf. Ps. 144 (145):13; Tob. 13:6, 10; Sir. 36:22; Philo de plant. Noë § 12 bis; de mundo § 7; Joseph. antt. 1, 18, 7; Clem. Rom. 1 Cor. 61, 2; 35, 3 (πατὴρ τ. α.); 55, 6 (θεὸς τ. α.); Constt. Ap. 7, 34; see Abbot in Journ. Soc. Bibl. Lit. etc. i. p. 106 n.]. So αἰών in Sap. 13:9; 14:6; 18:4; the same use occurs in the Talmud, Chaldee, Syriac, Arabic; cf. Bleek, Hebräerbr. ii. 1, p. 36 sqq.; Gesenius, Thesaur. ii. p. 1036; [cf. the use of οἱ αἰῶνες in the Fathers i. q. the world of mankind, e.g. Ignat. ad Eph. 19, 2].

Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm’s Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (New York: Harper & Brothers., 1889), 19.


and if you read a little further on down in Hebrews

Hebrews 1:8–10 (KJV 1900) — 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

confirmed throughout scripture

Ephesians 3:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

You need to stop fighting scripture

 

[TomL]

So Jesus was only a man then.

Acts 4:23-30 contradicts your bad theology concerning the Word. It says the Sovereign Lord they prayed to is the Creator. In that same prayer they refferred to Jesus as the Creator's servant. Therefore Jesus is not the Creator.

John 1 also doesn't call the Word the Creator.

Look at it again with fresh eyes:

John 1:1-2 says that the Word was with God in the beginning. Therefore the Word and God are not the same person. John 1:3 uses the "him" pronoun to refer to the closest noun which would be God, not the Word. Therefore, this verse says God is the Creator, not the Word.

John 1 (NIV)​

2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.​

John 1:9-10 repeats this. It uses the present tense to say the True Light was coming into the world after John the Baptist was already preaching. Since the True Light was coming into the world in the present tense, this would have placed Jesus at approximately 30 years old. Jesus had already been in the world for 30 years by the time the True Light was coming into the world. The world was made through the True Light, not the Word.

John 1 (NIV)​

9The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.​

The Bible contains no verses about Jesus being the Creator. When you're ready I hope you will start listening once you see the things I am pointing out to you are true.

Sorry you cannot read

John 1:1–5 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The word(the same, him) not God is the dominant subject

and you have no idea how to harmonize scripture

Colossians 1:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Ephesians 3:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

You really do need to stop your desperate war against scripture

 

[TomL]

Sorry you are misunderstanding the context of John 5. Jesus plainly said he does what he sees the Father doing in John 5:19. Jesus went on to briefly discuss the miracles God empowered him to do. After that, in John 5:22, Jesus said that the Father has entrusted all judgement to him so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father.

What Jesus was telling them to do was trust his judgements. This is set in the context of Jesus being accused of breaking the sabbath. Jesus had said in his defense, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." Because Jesus does what he sees God doing therefore Jesus is capable of making good judgements. John 5:27 says "And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man."

This is in regards to salvation versus potential damnation.

John 5 NIV
28“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Again you show you are not capable of properly exegeting scripture

Men are to honor the son as they honor the father because all that the father does, Jesus does

The text does not say to honor Jesus in judgment but to honor jesus as you honor the father

thus we see in heaven praise worship going to the father and the lamb equally

Revelation 5:11–13 (KJV 1900) — 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

You Unitarians fail to honor the son as you honor the father, thus you fail to honor the father

 

[TomL]

You took the sources I gave you and denied the fact that they plainly spoke of possible translations other than the one in biased Trinitarian bibles. Trinitarians don't hold the monopoly on the Greek language. You are simply defending your errors because your theology requires it.

Sorry I showed all support the deity of the Word and none supported the unitarian idea of a non-personal thing

It's rather funny you tried to appeal to something that refutes your theology.

 

[TomL]

How does the mind of Christ get to be associated with an impersonal thing? I never said that. I never read anyone saying that. Only you say that. Words matter and your question makes no sense.

Unitarians have argued the word was an impersonal thing

Are you willing to reject that idea?