Jesus denied being God

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Did I miss an answer because I have been asking this of non-Trins for a very long time and it is another UN ANSWERED Question.

IN fact I think it has value to be its own thread....
they dodge it for a good reason it flies in the face of their De Nile of the Son and His Divinity.
 
I didn’t say you said it. No strawman.
If you still don’t understand why I am bringing this as a counterargument, I invite you to think and then, if in doubt, ask.

My crazy idea comes from the fact that The text says “at the right of God” and not “at the right of the Father”.
God cannot sit on the right hand of Himself.
So, Jesus is one Person, and God is another Person.
Oh dear Lord God... open this ones understanding.........PLEASE
first of all... i am replying to you while sitting on my own right hand

Have you not heard it said... "God in 3 persons, the blessed Trinity?"

Have you any notion why Jesus would have told them go baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?

If God is the one who saves and is the only one then why confuse people by adding 2 more names?

Look at it this way.

You are one person, comprised of many parts... albeit attached.

Does your right hand do what your left foot does? Is there any part of you that has control over the other parts?

Yet are your other parts you, or are they someone else?
 
Good morning, MTMattie

Oh dear Lord God... open this ones understanding.........PLEASE
first of all... i am replying to you while sitting on my own right hand
Would you like to share, if it is not too personal, why were you sitting on your own right hand?
Have you not heard it said... "God in 3 persons, the blessed Trinity?"

Have you any notion why Jesus would have told them go baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit?
This is the notion I have: Baptism symbolizes the decision of the believer, after genuine repentence, to get "buried" to his past life and "be born" into a new life. Well, this process was possible thanks to the Father, who send the Son to teach us repentence and the need of a new birth, and then by the action of God through his Holy Spirit in our heart.

If God is the one who saves and is the only one then why confuse people by adding 2 more names?
There was no confusion, as the disciples hearing Jesus at that moment, knew perfectly well that Jesus had said that The Father was his God, and their God.
Jesus had never taught them about any other God except The Father, The God of Israel, YHWH, the one his disciples had always worshiped.
So there was no place for confusion.
So, when the disciples heard "The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit" they knew that "The Father" was God, that "The Son" was Jesus, who came from God, and that "The Holy Spirit" was the power of God that led people to repentance.

Look at it this way.

You are one person, comprised of many parts... albeit attached.

Does your right hand do what your left foot does? Is there any part of you that has control over the other parts?
Yes. I have only one mind that controls everything. That's why I am only one person.
God is like that: He has one mind. He is only One person.
 
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Look Forrest...........

We believe in the shed blood of Jesus that ws provided by the Father as our sacrificial lamb.

Does he have to "BE" God. NO!!!!!!!!!! For he came to do for us what was needed....
It is good to know that you accept that what Jesus did for us did not require him to be God.
Do I still believe He was God.... With out question. But then my mind has the ability to ponder on the wonderful mysteries that were provided by
the Heavenly Father.
I respect your belief, my friend.
But before going on... kindly tell me if it was you who indicated doubts about the virgin birth because I wont waste time on that
I don't think I expressed doubts on that.
 
Yes. I have only one mind that controls everything. That's why I am only one person.
God is like that: He has one mind. He is only One person.
Yet God says you are one flesh, with 2 bodies.

Yours and your wife's.

And like God is the master in the Godhead. (my understanding) You are the master over your wife.( A God directive)

Why can you not see that?

I should deflect back to my inanimate object for example but you wont understand.

Alas, Let me give it another try.

You have a cube.

The definition of a cube ~ A cube is a three-dimensional shape with 6 square faces,

That is the simplistic definition.

A cube has width

A cube has depth

A cube has height

Now most everything you see will have 1 to 3 of these attributes.

But not every thing has all three. A sheet of paper generally would be measured with a width, and depth (or height depending on your view)

If you remove the width from a cube it is no longer a cube. Or remove the depths it also is no longer a cube. And certainly removing the height
makes that cube be nothing.

If you remove any two of the three attributes you have a single that is no longer a cube. But put them back and voila... once again a cube.

There are many things that require 3 whatever's and the Godhead definitely requires more then one .
 
Yet God says you are one flesh, with 2 bodies.

Yours and your wife's.

And like God is the master in the Godhead. (my understanding) You are the master over your wife.( A God directive)

Why can you not see that?

I should deflect back to my inanimate object for example but you wont understand.

Alas, Let me give it another try.

You have a cube.

The definition of a cube ~ A cube is a three-dimensional shape with 6 square faces,

That is the simplistic definition.

A cube has width

A cube has depth

A cube has height

Now most everything you see will have 1 to 3 of these attributes.

But not every thing has all three. A sheet of paper generally would be measured with a width, and depth (or height depending on your view)

If you remove the width from a cube it is no longer a cube. Or remove the depths it also is no longer a cube. And certainly removing the height
makes that cube be nothing.

If you remove any two of the three attributes you have a single that is no longer a cube. But put them back and voila... once again a cube.

There are many things that require 3 whatever's and the Godhead definitely requires more then one .
Yes just like the Two became One so to are the Three- Father, Son, Holy Spirit One.

Man both man/woman were made in the image of God who said let US PLURAL make man in OUR PLURAL image after OUR PLURAL likeness.

Yet we have many who deny this obvious declaration of God about who is is and who we are.
 
Yet God says you are one flesh, with 2 bodies.
Yours and your wife's.
Yes, I understand.
And like God is the master in the Godhead. (my understanding) You are the master over your wife.( A God directive)

Why can you not see that?
I can see the illustration.
The husband is the master of the wife, and God is the master of Christ.

But I would have you know that the head of the woman is the man, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God.
(1 Cor 11:3)

The husband and the wife are united in love as if they were one, but of course, they have different minds. I am not my wife and my wife is not me.
By the same token, God and Christ are united in love as if they were one, but of course, they have different minds. God is not Christ, and Christ is not God.

Please reflect on this.
 
Yes just like the Two became One so to are the Three- Father, Son, Holy Spirit One.

Man both man/woman were made in the image of God who said let US PLURAL make man in OUR PLURAL image after OUR PLURAL likeness.

Yet we have many who deny this obvious declaration of God about who is is and who we are.
Good morning, civic

Please reflect on the analogy

My wife and I are united in love as if we were one, but of course, we have different minds. I am not my wife and my wife is not me.

By the same token, God and Christ are united in love as if they were one, but of course, they have different minds. God is not Christ, and Christ is not God.
 
Good morning, civic

Please reflect on the analogy

My wife and I are united in love as if we were one, but of course, we have different minds. I am not my wife and my wife is not me.

By the same token, God and Christ are united in love as if they were one, but of course, they have different minds. God is not Christ, and Christ is not God.
They are one in nature as in divine just like we are one in nature as in human nature
 
Wake up the issue is the personal pre -existence of Christ

You denied it

The passage refutes you

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Care to explain how that is consistent with an impersonal thing

Something you Unitarians have failed to do previously though having many opportunities
I think it's the King James that is tripping you up. Jesus was in the form of his father in the way he acted. Always doing the will of God. But he did not think he could be like or equel to God like Satan did. Here's 23 different Bibles saying what I just said. That Jesus did not consider himself equel to God.

New International Version
...did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

New Living Translation
...he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

English Standard Version
...did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Berean Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Berean Literal Bible
...did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

NASB 1995
...did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

NASB 1977
...did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Legacy Standard Bible
...did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Amplified Bible
...did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted

Christian Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

American Standard Version
...counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
...did not esteem this as a prize, that he was the equal of God,

English Revised Version
...counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,

Good News Translation
...he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.

Literal Standard Version
...thought [it] not something to be seized to be equal to God,

Majority Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

New American Bible
...did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.

NET Bible
...did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,

New Revised Standard Version
...did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited,

New Heart English Bible
...did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

World English Bible
...didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
 
They are one in nature as in divine just like we are one in nature as in human nature

I have two comments.

1. Jesus prayed so that we all can be one with Him and with God. "that they may be one as We are one" (John 17:11) Does this mean that we will share the same nature of Christ and God? Certainly not. This is a union of love. When we become one with Christ and with his God, each preserve their own nature and identity.

2. The analogy presented by Paul, in regard to how is the head of whom, concerns a line of authority. Please read the whole chapter of 1 Cor 11, and also consider what Paul is saying in verse 13: But I would have you know that the head of the woman is the man, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3). That Christ is the head of man does not mean that men have the same nature of Christ. It means that Christ has authority over men, as God has authority over Christ.
 
Yes just like the Two became One so to are the Three- Father, Son, Holy Spirit One.

Man both man/woman were made in the image of God who said let US PLURAL make man in OUR PLURAL image after OUR PLURAL likeness.

Yet we have many who deny this obvious declaration of God about who is is and who we are.
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 1 Corinthians 12:27
 
Yes just like the Two became One so to are the Three- Father, Son, Holy Spirit One.

Man both man/woman were made in the image of God who said let US PLURAL make man in OUR PLURAL image after OUR PLURAL likeness.

Yet we have many who deny this obvious declaration of God about who is is and who we are.

As we can verify by asking any Jew, or reading any Jew literature, Jew scholars and teachers have never thought that Elohim means several divine persons. They have always seen in the Creator a Personal God. That's the essence of Judaism! :)
Some scholars think that Elohim reflects a majestic plural while some others that it reflects the ancient polytheistic background of Israel and Mesopotamia, in which El was the supreme god among many gods.

In the New Testament, The Creator is presented as a "He", in singular.

This is how Jesus does it
“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ (Mat 19:4)

Paul does the same
Now He who has created us for this very thing is God, who also has given to us the guarantee of the Spirit. (2 Cor 5.5)

And we read in the Book of Revelation:
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the eternal gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. He said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give Him glory, for the hour of His judgment has come. Worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
 
Yes, I understand.

I can see the illustration.
The husband is the master of the wife, and God is the master of Christ.

You are the master 0f you one flesh. God is the master of the Godhead.
But I would have you know that the head of the woman is the man, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God.
(1 Cor 11:3)

You see a problem?... You are the head of the woman... And God is the head of the trinity.
The husband and the wife are united in love as if they were one, but of course, they have different minds. I am not my wife and my wife is not me.
By the same token, God and Christ are united in love as if they were one, but of course, they have different minds. God is not Christ, and Christ is not God.

So Jesus lied?

John 10:30
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update

30 “I and the Father are one.”


John 10:30 Peshitta
30“I and my Father, We are One.”


John 10:30 — The New International Version (NIV)

30 I and the Father are one.”

John 10:30 — English Standard Version (ESV)

30 I and the Father are one.”

John 10:30 — King James Version (KJV 1900)

30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:30 — New Living Translation (NLT)

30 The Father and I are one.”

John 10:30 — The New King James Version (NKJV)

30 I and My Father are one.”

John 10:30 — New Century Version (NCV)

30 The Father and I are one.”

John 10:30 — American Standard Version (ASV)

30 I and the Father are one.

John 10:30 — 1890 Darby Bible (DARBY)

30 I and the Father are one.

John 10:30 — GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

30 The Father and I are one.”

John 10:30 — The Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

30 The Father and I are one.”

John 10:30 — The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

30 The Father and I are one.”

John 10:30 — The Lexham English Bible (LEB)

30 The Father and I are one.”

John 10:30 — New International Reader’s Version (1998) (NIrV)

30 I and the Father are one.”

JOHN 10:30 Complete Jewish Bible
30 I and the Father are one.”

EVEN THE JW BIBLE

30  I and the Father are one.”

Please reflect on this.
The JW bible even agrees.

You are wrong
 
I think it's the King James that is tripping you up. Jesus was in the form of his father in the way he acted. Always doing the will of God. But he did not think he could be like or equel to God like Satan did. Here's 23 different Bibles saying what I just said. That Jesus did not consider himself equel to God.

New International Version
...did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

New Living Translation
...he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

English Standard Version
...did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Berean Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Berean Literal Bible
...did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

NASB 1995
...did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

NASB 1977
...did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Legacy Standard Bible
...did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Amplified Bible
...did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted

Christian Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

American Standard Version
...counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
...did not esteem this as a prize, that he was the equal of God,

English Revised Version
...counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,

Good News Translation
...he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.

Literal Standard Version
...thought [it] not something to be seized to be equal to God,

Majority Standard Bible
...did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

New American Bible
...did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.

NET Bible
...did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,

New Revised Standard Version
...did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited,

New Heart English Bible
...did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

World English Bible
...didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Totally missing the point

an impersonal thing does not have a mind, cannot think, cannot consider etc

This has nothing at all to do with the KJV
 
As we can verify by asking any Jew, or reading any Jew literature, Jew scholars and teachers have never thought that Elohim means several divine persons. They have always seen in the Creator a Personal God. That's the essence of Judaism! :)
Some scholars think that Elohim reflects a majestic plural while some others that it reflects the ancient polytheistic background of Israel and Mesopotamia, in which El was the supreme god among many gods.

In the New Testament, The Creator is presented as a "He", in singular.

This is how Jesus does it
“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ (Mat 19:4)

Paul does the same
Now He who has created us for this very thing is God, who also has given to us the guarantee of the Spirit. (2 Cor 5.5)

And we read in the Book of Revelation:
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the eternal gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. He said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give Him glory, for the hour of His judgment has come. Worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
The Jews got it wrong they missed their divine Messiah’s first coming
 
As we can verify by asking any Jew, or reading any Jew literature, Jew scholars and teachers have never thought that Elohim means several divine persons. They have always seen in the Creator a Personal God. That's the essence of Judaism! :)
Some scholars think that Elohim reflects a majestic plural while some others that it reflects the ancient polytheistic background of Israel and Mesopotamia, in which El was the supreme god among many gods.

In the New Testament, The Creator is presented as a "He", in singular.

This is how Jesus does it
“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ (Mat 19:4)

Paul does the same
Now He who has created us for this very thing is God, who also has given to us the guarantee of the Spirit. (2 Cor 5.5)

And we read in the Book of Revelation:
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the eternal gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. He said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give Him glory, for the hour of His judgment has come. Worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
You missed some facts

Ephesians 3:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

John 1:3 (KJV 1900) — 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Hebrews 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:8–10 (KJV 1900) — 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
 
As we can verify by asking any Jew, or reading any Jew literature, Jew scholars and teachers have never thought that Elohim means several divine persons. They have always seen in the Creator a Personal God. That's the essence of Judaism! :)
Some scholars think that Elohim reflects a majestic plural while some others that it reflects the ancient polytheistic background of Israel and Mesopotamia, in which El was the supreme god among many gods.

In the New Testament, The Creator is presented as a "He", in singular.

This is how Jesus does it
“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ (Mat 19:4)

Paul does the same
Now He who has created us for this very thing is God, who also has given to us the guarantee of the Spirit. (2 Cor 5.5)

And we read in the Book of Revelation:
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the eternal gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. He said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give Him glory, for the hour of His judgment has come. Worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
THEN JESUS HAD TO HAVE LIED. CAN YOU BELIEVE ANYTHING HE SAID?

JESUS SAID THEY WERE ONE.

BUT COMMON MAN WROTE AND READ AND TRANSLATED AND RETRANSLATED AND RERETRANSLATED THE WORDS YOU READ.

DID THE WRITERS OF SCRIPTURE EVEN HAVE THE CAPACITY TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WAS YHWH, THE SPIRIT AND THE WORD IN THE BEGINNING.

IF HE DID IT WHO WAS THE US THAT IS IN GEN 1:26.

Ill stop shouting now as my urge to use certain words has gone BUT
I have always believed that the Word was in Genesis doing the speaking.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Now.... re read again Genesis 1~ 9 times it say Then God Said. except it was the Word who did the speaking..... (The Word who became Jesus)


1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 And the earth was a [a]formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the [b]surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the [c]surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “[d]Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

6 Then God said,
“Let there be [e]an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the [f]expanse, and separated the waters that were below the [g]expanse from the waters that were above the [h]expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the [i]expanse “heaven.” And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed according to [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, according to [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

14 Then God said, “Let there be [s]lights in the [t]expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall [u]serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; 15 and they [v]shall serve as lights in the [w]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light [x]to govern the day, and the lesser light [y]to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the [z]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and [aa]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

20 Then God said, “Let the waters [ab]teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth [ac]in the open [ad]expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.

24 Then God said, “Let the earth produce living creatures according to [ae]their kind: livestock and crawling things and animals of the earth according to [af]their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the animals of the earth according to [ag]their kind, and the livestock according to [ah]their kind, and everything that crawls on the ground according to its kind; and God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “[ai]Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and [aj]let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that [ak]moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the [al]surface of all the earth, and every tree [am]which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every animal of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to everything that [an]moves on the earth [ao]which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. 31 And God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
 
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