Jesus denied being God

[Runningman]

Sorry but the text contradicts you

As do Greek scholars



Philippians 2:6

Being (ὑπαρχων [huparchōn]). Rather, “existing,” present active participle of ὑπαρχω [huparchō]. In the form of God (ἐν μορφῃ θεου [en morphēi theou]). Μορφη [Morphē] means the essential attributes as shown in the form. In his preincarnate state Christ possessed the attributes of God and so appeared to those in heaven who saw him. Here is a clear statement by Paul of the deity of Christ


A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Php 2:6.

Being in the form of God (ἐν μορφῇ Θεοῦ ὑπάρχων). Being. Not the simple εἶναι to be, but stronger, denoting being which is from the beginning. See on Jas. 2:15. It has a backward look into an antecedent condition, which has been protracted into the present. Here appropriate to the preincarnate being of Christ, to which the sentence refers. In itself it does not imply eternal, but only prior existence. Form (μορφή). We must here dismiss from our minds the idea of shape. The word is used in its philosophic sense, to denote that expression of being which carries in itself the distinctive nature and character of the being to whom it pertains, and is thus permanently identified with that nature and character

Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament (vol. 3; New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 430.


Verse six
The first word which we must carefully study is “form.” The Greek word has no reference to the shape of any physical object. It was a Greek philosophical term. Vincent has an excellent note on the word. In discussing it, he has among other things, the following to say: “We must here dismiss from our minds the idea of shape. The word is used in its philosophical sense to denote that expression of being which carries in itself the distinctive nature and character of the being to whom it pertains, and is thus permanently identified with that nature and character … As applied to God, the word is intended to describe that mode in which the essential being of God expresses itself


Kenneth S. Wuest, Wuest’s Word Studies from the Greek New Testament: For the English Reader (vol. 5; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1997), 62.

This is some very strange scholarly material as it is completely wrong. The word "form" in Philippians 2:6 means form, shape, outward appearance in Scripture and the physical appearance as you correctly suggested in Mark 16:12 (your comment #129) because God does not have a physical appearance. God does not have a physical appearance, but Jesus does. This does not refer to Jesus being visually the same as God, but rather the same kind of behaviors, i.e., holiness, righteousness, etc. What you are suggesting is a completely foreign concept in all of Scripture.

Where this word is used in the Greek Septuagint, it 100% of the time refers to the outward appearance, such as what is beheld with the eyes. Some examples below:

Job 4
15A spirit glided past my face;
the hair of my flesh stood up.
16It stood still,
but I could not discern its appearance.
A form was before my eyes;
there was silence, then I heard a voice:

Isaiah 44
13The craftsman of wood extends a measuring line; he outlines it with a marker. He works it with carving knives and outlines it with a compass, and makes it like the form of a man, like the beauty of mankind, so that it may sit in a house.

Daniel 3
19Then Nabuchodonosor was filled with wrath, and the form of his countenance was changed toward Sedrach, Misach, and Abdenago: and he gave orders to heat the furnace seven times more than usual, until it should burn to the uttermost.

 

[Runningman]

My argument is the bible shows believers worshipped Christ

Matthew 28:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

As does the hosts of heaven

Revelation 5:13–14 (KJV 1900) — 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Your arguments don't show Jesus was worshipped any different than a king, but certainly they don't suggest he was worshipped as God.

Beginning with Revelation 5:8-14 you should observe that in verse 8, around the throne is where the the living creatures and the elders are. Verse 13 refers to "Him who sits on the throne" and "the Lamb" showing distinction between the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb. Remember where in verse 8 it says that around the throne is where the living creatures and elders are? Verse 14 says the elders fell down and worshipped. So where they fell down was before the throne of God, and not the Lamb. They were worshipping God the Father.

 

[civic]

Your arguments don't show Jesus was worshipped any different than a king, but certainly they don't suggest he was worshipped as God.

Beginning with Revelation 5:8-14 you should observe that in verse 8, around the throne is where the the living creatures and the elders are. Verse 13 refers to "Him who sits on the throne" and "the Lamb" showing distinction between the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb. Remember where in verse 8 it says that around the throne is where the living creatures and elders are? Verse 14 says the elders fell down and worshipped. So where they fell down was before the throne of God, and not the Lamb. They were worshipping God the Father.

false try reading it with your reading glasses to you can see what the passage actually says who is being worshipped. Both are receiving IDENTICAL WORSHIP- power, glory, honor and praise. God alone receives this in heaven, no one else otherwise its idolatry. It's time you take your head out of the sand and believe Gods word that testifies to the Son and brings Him Glory, Honor, Power, Praise and Worship.

CASE CLOSED-

11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

 

[Runningman]

false try reading it with your reading glasses to you can see what the passage actually says who is being worshipped. Both are receiving IDENTICAL WORSHIP- power, glory, honor and praise. God alone receives this in heaven, no one else otherwise its idolatry. It's time you take your head out of the sand and believe Gods word that testifies to the Son and brings Him Glory, Honor, Power, Praise and Worship.

CASE CLOSED-

11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

"Him who sits on the throne" and the "the Lamb" are not the same person in English grammar. Where the elders were in verse 11 is encircling the throne. Therefore when they fall down and worshipped it was before the throne, not before the Lamb. They were worshipping the Father, not the Lamb.

If it helps, try wording it differently. This should help you understand you're blinded by bias:

Try this:

"To him who sits on the throne and to civic"

Question: in the above statement, are you the one on the throne? A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[civic]

"Him who sits on the throne" and the "the Lamb" are not the same person in English grammar. Where the elders were in verse 11 is encircling the throne. Therefore when they fall down and worshipped it was before the throne, not before the Lamb. They were worshipping the Father, not the Lamb.

If it helps, try wording it differently. This should help you understand you're blinded by bias:

Try this:

"To him who sits on the throne and to civic"

Question: in the above statement, are you the one on the throne? A simple yes or no will suffice.

2 who are one the one throne receiving the identical praise and worship

 

[synergy]

It has been recorded that Jesus denied that he is God in the verses below from the KJV:

Matthew 19​

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.​

​

Mark 10​

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.​

​

Luke 18​

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.​

Based on the above Scripture, we can find the following information:

Jesus rhetorically questions why he is being called "good" and says that only God is good. This means that Jesus is distinguishing himself from God and that absolute goodness belongs exclusively to God. In saying this, Jesus denies that he possesses the absolute goodness that God has.

This distinction that Jesus pointed out between himself and God is evident in his rhetorical question about why he is being called good. If Jesus were God, then it would not be consistent for him to deny being called good and thus deny having this divine attribute of God.

Since Jesus denied having the absolute goodness of God, Jesus strongly inferred that he is just a teacher and a prophet. In John 8:28, Jesus stated, "I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." Therefore, Jesus was himself taught by his God and Father. Needing to be taught by God means that Jesus is not omniscient and didn't inherently know the things he himself was teaching until he was taught.

Therefore, Jesus denied being God.

Your interpretation flies in the face of Jesus' explicit declaration that he is "I Am", the very same name that the OT God declared his name as being. And not only that but Jesus declared that he existed before Abraham existed. There is a Biblical interpretation that aligns perfectly with the entire Bible but you refuse to acknowledge it.

You are hell bent on desecrating the Uncreated Word of God, I see. JWs, Muslims, Unitarians, and Judaizers are all co-conspirators in that respect.

 

[civic]

Your interpretation flies in the face of Jesus' explicit declaration that he is "I Am", the very same name that the OT God declared his name as being. And not only that but Jesus declared that he existed before Abraham existed.

You are hell bent on desecrating the Uncreated Word of God, I see. JWs, Muslims, Unitarians, and Judaizers are all co-conspirators in that respect.

Ditto

 

[Runningman]

2 who are one the one throne receiving the identical praise and worship

Verse?

 

[Runningman]

Your interpretation flies in the face of Jesus' explicit declaration that he is "I Am", the very same name that the OT God declared his name as being. And not only that but Jesus declared that he existed before Abraham existed. There is a Biblical interpretation that aligns perfectly with the entire Bible but you refuse to acknowledge it.

You are hell bent on desecrating the Uncreated Word of God, I see. JWs, Muslims, Unitarians, and Judaizers are all co-conspirators in that respect.

Bad premise to your argument. "I am" is not an explicit declaration nor does it mean the same thing as "I am" in Exodus 3:14,15.

 

[civic]

Verse?

I quoted in in rev 5 and rev 22 says the same thing as both share the one throne

 

[synergy]

Bad premise to your argument. "I am" is not an explicit declaration nor does it mean the same thing as "I am" in Exodus 3:14,15.

You're saying that "I Am" Ἐγώ εἰμι is not equal to "I Am" ἐγώ εἰμι.
Everyone, welcome to the Runningman version of Nihilistic Anti-Logic.

 

[Runningman]

I quoted in in rev 5 and rev 22 says the same thing as both share the one throne

In basic English grammar, "him who sits on the throne" and "the lamb" are two distinct persons because they are separated by "and." Since they are not the same person, then the Lamb isn't the one on the throne. What you are suggesting is false.

Take Revelation 7 for example. In the below passage it directly says God is the one on the throne and that the Lamb is distinct from God. They all fell down before the throne and worshipped God, not the Lamb.

Revelation 7
9After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb!”

11And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

 

[Runningman]

You're saying that "I Am" Ἐγώ εἰμι is not equal to "I Am" ἐγώ εἰμι.
Everyone, welcome to the Runningman version of Nihilistic Anti-Logic.

Now I am going to have to just laugh at you. Please show how "I am" in Greek means the same thing as "I am" in the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14,15. This should be good.

 

[synergy]

Now I am going to have to just laugh at you. Please show how "I am" in Greek means the same thing as "I am" in the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14,15. This should be good.

Simple. The Alexandrian Jews, on their authority and knowledge, rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι in Ex 3:14 of the Septuagint (LXX). Now if you want to file a complaint against that, I'm sure you can locate an Alexandrian Synagogue that you can file your complaint against.

The more you judaize, the more you as a Judaizers will be left behind.

 

[Runningman]

Simple. The Alexandrian Jews, on their authority and knowledge, rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι in Ex 3:14 of the Septuagint (LXX). Now if you want to file a complaint against that, I'm sure you can locate an Alexandrian Synagogue that you can file your complaint against.

Good job, so anywhere "I am" is said in Greek it means they are God?

 

[Runningman]

Simple. The Alexandrian Jews, on their authority and knowledge, rendered God's name as ἐγώ εἰμι in Ex 3:14 of the Septuagint (LXX). Now if you want to file a complaint against that, I'm sure you can locate an Alexandrian Synagogue that you can file your complaint against.

The more you judaize, the more you as a Judaizers will be left behind.

I also might add, for good measure, there is more than one version of the Septuagint. There is the Aquila and Theodotion version that says in Exodus 3:14b “esomai hos esomai” and “esomai” respectively, which in turn translate as “I will be who I will be” and “I will be”.

 

[synergy]

Good job, so anywhere "I am" is said in Greek it means they are God?

Every time that Christ declared himself "I Am" by itself, he is in fact declaring himself God. There are many instances where he did that. So the balls in your court once again to deny those facts.

 

[Runningman]

Every time that Christ declared himself "I Am" by itself, he is in fact declaring himself God. There are many instances where he did that. So the balls in your court once again to deny those facts.

That would be fallaciously begging the question since "ego eimi" doesn't automatically transfer to one declaring they are God. It's said all over the New Testament, hundreds of times, and you randomly assign deity to Jesus when he said it, but not others? Why would you conclude Jesus is God when he didn't say so in John 8, but instead said he is a man in John 8:40? Ball is back in your court already. You have not provided proof, but rather a semantical argument that isn't consistent in Scripture.

 

[synergy]

I also might add, for good measure, there is more than one version of the Septuagint. There is the Aquila and Theodotion version that says in Exodus 3:14b “esomai hos esomai” and “esomai” respectively, which in turn translate as “I will be who I will be” and “I will be”.

I'll stick to the Koine Greek phrase of ἐγώ εἰμι if you don't mind.

I'm not sure if you fully understood the implications of the LXX. Because of the LXX, Judaizers can no longer claim that you must know Hebrew to understand the OT. The more one judaizes, the more the rope tightens around his/her neck.

 

[Runningman]

I'll stick to the Koine Greek verse of ἐγώ εἰμι if you don't mind.

I'm not sure if you fully understood the implications of the LXX. Because of the LXX, Judaizers can no longer claim that you must know Hebrew to understand the OT. The more one judaizes, the more the rope tightens around his/her neck.

Pick your versions, pick your scholars, we all do anyway. My point is that you have only provided a surface-level argument and I have already shown how it doesn't even make sense. The way it's used in Exodus 3:14 is actually grammatically correct, but randomly ending in sentence with "I am" is unconventional, not how Jesus talked, or anyone else or that matter.

The Greek's "I am" is based on the context. Here's an example from John 9:9, the ESV, "Some said, “It is he.” Others said, “No, but he is like him.” He kept saying, “I am the man.”

Wow. Why didn't they translate it as just "I am?" Because "I am" is a dogmatic translation. Doesn't even make sense.