civic
Well-known member
Was it a Protestant or Trinitarian college ?
Jesus denied being God
- Thread starter Runningman
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Peterlag
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I did not call you a fool or reference you as such. I said you talk like a fool when you say the data I post is not my own just because you found someone else who believes as I do. If you find two people from the same church who both believe the same doctrine. Do you say one is copying from the other because not both wrote the same doctrine down on paper? Only a fool would talk like that.
The man, John Schoenheit, on a video shared here took some classes at Reformed Theological Seminary.
There is some affiliation with Victor Paul Wierwille and The Way International. I have not checked their beliefs beyond just the non-Trinitarian view.
Peterlag
Well-known member
You guys do the same. It's always the same verses. John 1:1 and Thomas My Lord and my God. Nothing different no matter who I talk to. So yeah I have the same response because all of you bring up the same verses and I do like how John writes. He does punch holes in your doctrine well does he not?
Peterlag
Well-known member
It was not a Trinity college which is why I differ from the rest of you who do follow the trinity colleges. And that's okay that you all have teachers and fellow students who think like you. But if I have teachers and fellow students then I'm not thinking for myself. Then I'm a parrot.
The word, the pre-incarnate Christ not being a living being. A plan etc as some of you suggested
Just because you do not like the verse is no reason we should ignore it
not in the least
Peterlag
Well-known member
No body has said Jesus is a plan. Where did you get that from?
Pancho Frijoles
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Very good food for thought. Thanks for sharing.
I wonder if we could dedicate one thread to the psychological and spiritual aspects of the debate on the Trinity. I mean, what goes in our emotions when we defend (and cling to!) one or another position.
I will use two paintings to help me to share with you what I think is behind the emotions that underpin our debates on the Trinity.
(NOTE: Baha'is do not like to represent neither God nor His Manifestations in any form, but I will do it as respectfully as I can with the whole purpose of illustrating my point, as I want to emphasize how we may be "visualizing" things in our minds)
The first painting, from Micheal Angelo, represents why I feel the need to defend Unitarism.
God and man. One person and another person. I extrapolate what my personal experience of feeling one (Pancho Frijoles) to God's experience in feeling One. This God is unique and eternally Alone in His Uniqueness. That's why I can have a personal relationship with him, because I am also alone in my uniqueness. So, in the heat of a debate, I may interpret Trinitarians as attacking the uniqueness of God by placing other persons next to Him and telling me they are in some way my co-fathers. So, perhaps subconsciously, I feel my own uniqueness attacked ("I know Pancho Frijoles is just one of 8,000 million people in the planet. I know my planet is one among billions of other planets. At least let my God be One and Only!!!")
After all, He is my God. My Father. I can accept having brothers... but not co-fathers of any kind!
On next post I will present the corresponding illustration for Trinitarism
It was stated about the word who became flesh and was identified as Jesus Christ
Phil 2:5 speaks of Christ pre-incarnate
Peterlag
Well-known member
Find then just because you don't like my response to that verse is no reason why I should ignore what I post.
Your response is weak and unbiblical
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
This second picture represents a different view of God.
God is, fundamentally, a crown. I mean, a distinction. God is Deity.
Jesus deserves that crown, particularly after all He has done for humanity. Jesus is King of King and Lord of Lords, and his throne is forever. So, if the Father has given him that crown and throne, He must be believed and worshiped as God.
In the heat of the debate, a Trinitarian feels that the Unitarian is trying to take that crown off his head. That can't be interpreted in any other way than trying to degrade, downplay or betray Jesus. If I love Jesus, if I am his servant and soldier, the least I can do is to defend his right to Deity! If Jesus is attacked, I am attacked.
God is, fundamentally, a crown. I mean, a distinction. God is Deity.
Jesus deserves that crown, particularly after all He has done for humanity. Jesus is King of King and Lord of Lords, and his throne is forever. So, if the Father has given him that crown and throne, He must be believed and worshiped as God.
In the heat of the debate, a Trinitarian feels that the Unitarian is trying to take that crown off his head. That can't be interpreted in any other way than trying to degrade, downplay or betray Jesus. If I love Jesus, if I am his servant and soldier, the least I can do is to defend his right to Deity! If Jesus is attacked, I am attacked.
Peterlag
Well-known member
What you guys are saying is you can post your thoughts and that's okay. But if I post mine it's not thinking for myself. And you don't see anything weird about that?
Jesus is King of King and Lord of Lords, and his throne is forever. So, if the Father has given him that crown and throne, He must be believed and worshiped as God.
Amen
I never mentioned a word about you not thinking for yourself
I simply stated your argument is weak and unbiblical.
I stand by that
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Well, if you say Amen, is because I may be representing your thinking accurately enough, and I appreciate that.
Peterlag
Well-known member
How do you get a pre-incarnate from the following verse...
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
So, the very sad result of a heated debate between Trinitarians and Unitarians, is that we convert this in a battlefield of people defending their relationship with Jesus, versus people defending their relationship with the Father.
A battle of loyalties.
This is the WORST result ever possible!!!
Certainly, Jesus came to restore our relationship with Our Father, and Our Father is pleased with our relationship with Jesus.
Jesus said "My Father and I are one".
So, by acting as soldiers of opposite bands, we are placing our egos over the special bond between Jesus and His Father (whatever this bond is in theological terms) that should be the bond that we nurture among us.
I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word that they may all be one as You, Father, are in Me, and I in you- May they also be one in us, that the world may believe that You have sent Me. (John 17:20,21)
A battle of loyalties.
This is the WORST result ever possible!!!
Certainly, Jesus came to restore our relationship with Our Father, and Our Father is pleased with our relationship with Jesus.
Jesus said "My Father and I are one".
So, by acting as soldiers of opposite bands, we are placing our egos over the special bond between Jesus and His Father (whatever this bond is in theological terms) that should be the bond that we nurture among us.
I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word that they may all be one as You, Father, are in Me, and I in you- May they also be one in us, that the world may believe that You have sent Me. (John 17:20,21)
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Peterlag
Well-known member
They post their Scripture on what they believe shows a trinity.
I post that same Scripture on what I believe shows not a trinity.
So far so good.
Both sides giving their views.
Then they attack me personally saying I went to the wrong school, or that I had the wrong teachers, or that I follow the wrong fellow Bible students. And they tell me I'm not thinking for myself, or what I'm posting came from the wrong website.
