Jesus denied being God

[praise_yeshua]

But the Word is not The God. This verse is actually a stumbling block for you.

John 1:1
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

Give your full translation. Not one from someone else. Give us your full translation of that verse.

 

[Runningman]

How in the world does one go from "God was the Word" (translated literally from the Greek) to "the Word is not the God"???? This will be an interesting dive into the warped thinking patterns of the Judaizing Heretical mind.

Like this:

This is super easy. Who is The God below? Not the Word? Then the Word is not The God. The Word is not the definite God. Do you know what that means in basic Greek? It means that the Word is a lesser god, a thing, or something else depending on how you interpret it.

John 1:1
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

 

[synergy]

Like this:

This is super easy. Who is The God below? Not the Word?

Right here you're totally contradicting the phrase "the Word was God". Your logic fails here.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and ask a Greek, someone you trust, to translate John 1:1 for you? You're imposing your own presuppositions on those verses.

Then the Word is not The God. The Word is not the definite God. Do you know what that means in basic Greek? It means that the Word is a lesser god, a thing, or something else depending on how you interpret it.

John 1:1
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

 

[dwight92070]

"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." John 3:13
Jesus is saying that He has (past tense) ascended into heaven. This was BEFORE His ascension - Acts 1:2
Then He says that He has also descended from heaven and refers to Himself as the Son of Man, which obviously refers to His incarnation.
"What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?" John 6:62
Where was Jesus before? Obviously in heaven. Once again, this proves His pre-existence AND His Deity.
A man cannot ascend into heaven, as Jesus said He did, even before His life on earth. Which also means that He must have descended from heaven PRIOR TO His incarnation - possibly referring to His appearances as the angel of the Lord or Melchizedek or the Captain of the Host of the Lord, etc.

Let's see what silly explanations Runningham and Peterlag have to deny this proof of His Deity. Maybe he'll even use his awesome data?

 

[civic]

"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man." John 3:13
Jesus is saying that He has (past tense) ascended into heaven. This was BEFORE His ascension - Acts 1:2
Then He says that He has also descended from heaven and refers to Himself as the Son of Man, which obviously refers to His incarnation.
"What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?" John 6:62
Where was Jesus before? Obviously in heaven. Once again, this proves His pre-existence AND His Deity.
A man cannot ascend into heaven, as Jesus said He did, even before His life on earth. Which also means that He must have descended from heaven PRIOR TO His incarnation - possibly referring to His appearances as the angel of the Lord or Melchizedek or the Captain of the Host of the Lord, etc.

Let's see what silly explanations Runningham and Peterlag have to deny this proof of His Deity. Maybe he'll even use his awesome data?

His preexistence is irrefutable. A person must turn a blind eye to all the scriptures stating His existence prior to the Incarnation.

This is where the teachings of men fall apart and they take their created doctrines and place them above Scripture. They refuse to take off their rose colored glasses and see the truth. It's self deception.

 

[TomL]

His preexistence is irrefutable. A person must turn a blind eye to all the scriptures stating His existence prior to the Incarnation.

This is where the teachings of men fall apart and they take their created doctrines and place them above Scripture. They refuse to take off their rose colored glasses and see the truth. It's self deception.

Yep and he had glory with the father before the world was

and personal existence as shown by

Philippians 2:5–8 (UASV) — 5 Have this mind in yourselves, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

as he had a mind and could consider and example humility all before becoming a man

 

[Peterlag]

You're also the most humble, right? You haven't even shown that you know who Jesus on earth was, not to mention the resurrected Jesus. Your "awesome data" is replete with error, wrong assumptions, bias, and disdain for the truth.

I believe a lot of you guys would crucify me if I let you. Or perhaps burn me alive on a piece of wood. Well, that does put me in good company.

 

[Peterlag]

Still not addressing the argument

Philippians 2:4–8 (KJV 1900) — 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

When did he exist in the form of God

before being made in the likeness of man or after

Is it not before he became man

so before becoming man he had a mind. He had thoughts and was able to demonstrate humility

That shows the pre-existant Christ was not an impersonal thing

And still after all this time you do not address my objection

It's not open to an argument because you say I'm not answering you with the right answer if I do not agree with you.

 

[TomL]

It's not open to an argument because you say I'm not answering you with the right answer if I do not agree with you.

You cannot show any reference to an impersonal thing and the passage speaks of Christ before becoming man

In fact you denied it

So what was this existence of Christ in the form of God before becoming man

 

[dwight92070]

I believe a lot of you guys would crucify me if I let you. Or perhaps burn me alive on a piece of wood. Well, that does put me in good company.

You and your opinions get a little criticism and you equate that to murderous hatred? That's an exaggerated response, so you can claim you're being persecuted and thereby earning brownie points with God. When actually, your denying the truth of scripture should put the fear of God in you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I believe a lot of you guys would crucify me if I let you. Or perhaps burn me alive on a piece of wood. Well, that does put me in good company.

Whining is a common debate tactic for those who can't defend themselves.

You need to invite your seminary leader to join this discussion. Maybe they can do better.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You and your opinions get a little criticism and you equate that to murderous hatred? That's an exaggerated response, so you can claim you're being persecuted and thereby earning brownie points with God. When actually, your denying the truth of scripture should put the fear of God in you.

Which is why anyone can't separate what a person believes from who they are personally.

 

[synergy]

So what was this existence of Christ in the form of God before becoming man

Popcorn time!

 

[TomL]

I believe a lot of you guys would crucify me if I let you. Or perhaps burn me alive on a piece of wood. Well, that does put me in good company.

A persecution complex

 

[TomL]

Popcorn time!

I have not been able to get an answer from the unitarians for quite a while now

 

[synergy]

I have not been able to get an answer from the unitarians for quite a while now

They scattered into their holes They're licking their wounds and plotting more attacks. It's good that I made extra popcorn to last us longer.

 

[TomL]

They scattered into their holes They're licking their wounds and plotting more attacks. It's good that I made extra popcorn to last us longer.

Maybe they should just forget all their man fed doctrine and just believe scripture.

 

[civic]

Yep and he had glory with the father before the world was

and personal existence as shown by

Philippians 2:5–8 (UASV) — 5 Have this mind in yourselves, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

as he had a mind and could consider and example humility all before becoming a man

Amen

 

[TomL]

Amen

The unitarians have no answer for Phil 2:5ff

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The unitarians have no answer for Phil 2:5ff

Indeed, Phil 2:5 presupposes that Jesus Christ is one person, and God (not "the Father", but "God") another person.
Otherwise, the hymn hadn't said "He was in the form of God" but just "He was God".
The hymn hadn't said "did not count equality with God", but just "did not count being God".

The author of the epistle of Philippians had made very clear, from the very beginning of his epistle, that he considers God and Jesus as separate persons, and that God is Our Father.
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (1:2)