Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Joel: New Covenants, New Hearts, and a Holy Spirit
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
I hate to be the one to bring you the bad news, but the Jews as a nation got a lot of things wrong.
Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." 8 This means that it is NOT the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
No, they haven't.
It's YOUR Gentile-biased interpretation that is wrong. God promised the nine kings and their families NOTHING!!!
They represent the world. And God promised them NOTHING!!!
BUT God did promise Abraham and his seed ("IN THEE") certain things such as land and being a great family that surpass the number of stars Abraham could see in his electric-less night sky.
In your passage above the children of the flesh are Ishmael and his seed. They are BLESSED by virtue of Abraham's covenant, but they are NOT in the covenant. IF ISHMAEL was NOT born through Hagar there would be NO CONFUSION. But Abraham brought confusion into the mix when they tried to bring God's promise of an heir through a servant woman instead of His own body and the body of Sarai ("IN THEE.")
It is hard to imagine a more unintelligent reading of God's word than you present in post after post. You really have no idea whatsoever the what and the why of God's choosing of Israel. It really is pathetic. Goodbye.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
See that. You have no answer to the points I make in the OT because you have a Gentile interpretation of Hebrew Scripture. It's error. The ONLY WAY to interpret the Hebrew Scripture - Matthew to Revelation - is with a Hebrew mindset, not a Gentile one.
That's OK. You're not the only one to drop out when I bring the truth of the OT Scripture out as originally written - to a Hebrew audience.
It's like an American high school student trying to interpret Sanskrit as an American, free-world, thinker and not like a Indian person who would KNOW - IN TIME - what Sanskrit means in its original language to Indians. Jesus bar Joseph was truly who He said He was in the 1st century - the fulfillment of the Old Testament promises and prophecies. He was NOT a fulfillment of Roman, Assyrian, Babylonian or any other religious personality of these Gentile nations.
Jesus was Jewish and the fulfillment of the prophecies and Promises of the Law of Moses.
He is a Jewish King to and for the Jewish people specifically to save and deliver the Jewish people from ALL their enemies.
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deut. 18:15.
and
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deut. 18:18.
It's not hard to understand. Assyrian king is for Assyria, Babylon king for Babylon, and a Jewish king for the Jews.
Jesus is King fo the Jews, NOT the king of Babylon or Asgard. Odin is NOT the "all father" but God is. He is All Father to ALL the Jews. And the Jews have covenant to prove it.
Gentiles do not have covenant with God. Never have, never will.
Keep your Gentile-based interpretation of the Hebrew Scripture. That will be your undoing and I find that most true born-again believers do in time become master of the OT and see their writings as a Hebrew and not as a Gentile - especially when Gentiles interpret the Hebrew Scripture with a western world, free world, American mindset and not as a Hebrew merely studying Hebrew Scripture as a Hebrew citizen.
I been studying the Bible for nearly half a century. And given my call of the Lord is necessary I know the truth or I will be called a false prophet.
This is my call:
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jeremiah 1:5.
And this is my command:
10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Jeremiah 1:10.
John the Baptist was called of God "in spirit and power of Elijah" and like Jeremiah I have the same instruction. I will continue to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down the false things most say about the One True God and I am not alone. There are many "Jeremiah's" and "Elijah's" and Ezra's" and "Nehemiah's" and Habakkuk's" out there doing the same thing as I. Setting the stage for Israel's revelation that Jesus bar Joseph was truly the King of the Jews.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:23–24.
Those that claim as most Gentiles do, that the Law is no longer valid, are contradiction. You cannot claim "I serve the one and only God" when you have rejected "thou shalt have no other gods before thee."
What you seem not to understand is that God did not choose the nation Israel for salvation. The OT Scriptures do not present the plan of salvation. The OT Scriptures present the bringing of the plan of salvation to the world. In the OT Scriptures there is only the promise of the coming of the Messiah. It is the NT Scriptures that gives, not the promise of the coming of the Messiah, but rather the actual coming of the Messiah.
All you have as an OT Jew is the animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin. But you have no means of entering the kingdom of God. It is only in the NT that you have access to the kingdom of God.
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, not alll are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring (Rom 9:6-8).
Which are you? Do you belong to Israel. You have claim that you are a child of the flesh. That doesn't cut it. And that was the statement of a Jew who knew a lot more about the OT than you.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The Old Testament is a record of God and the Hebrew people. It is filled with references of their eventual deliverance from their enemies - sin being one of those enemies - which salvation is clearly described in the Ceremonial Law of the Mosaic Covenant between God and the Hebrew people in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle whom God delivered out of Egypt.
In the Old Testament Gentiles (Moabites, Philistines, etc.), are the enemy of the Hebrews and God delivers them militarily many times. But through the Mosaic Covenant God estanlishes the Ceremonial Laws which address Israel's sin(s) and provides a temporary atonement from sin and establishes a future day when God delivers Israel from ALL their political and military enemies. Revelation says this in chapter 19, 20, 21.
The Kingdom of God is not a place, He is a Person.
The Kingdom of Heaven is a place and it is New Jerusalem.
Romans 9:6-8 refers to the difference between Ishmael and Isaac. The children of the flesh or bondage (Hagar) are Ishmael's descendants.
The children of Promise are Isaac's seed.
I am still learning about Hebrew people, culture, politics, military, religion, the whole ball of wax.
I know enough through Scripture to present a total Hebrew salvation excluding non-Hebrew Gentiles who were NEVER under the Law and NEVER among Christ's atonement.
You are delusional. The kingdom of God is the kingdom of Heaven. The Old Covenant established a means for forgiveness of sin, but not the payment for the penalty of is (Heb 10L4).
Children of the Promise are neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female (Gal 3:28).
Gal 1:2 and all the brothers who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:
Gal 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Brothers -- Mostly Gentiles, some Jews. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles (Eph 3:1-13); they are his brothers.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The animal sacrifice was killed as substitutionary sacrifice for sin and you say there's no punishment for sin in the Old Testament (Law)? You are again wrong. Study the Old Testament and go forward to the New Covenant letters and gospels in order to rightly understand what the apostles are saying about their studies of the Old Testament.
And you make a mistake about what - or should I say WHO - the kingdom of God is. When Christ came He said many times "the kingdom of God" but the fact is there was no kingdom as you define His words. Israel was an occupied territory. There was no king, no land (it was occupied), no subjects, no court, no realm and the totality of Israel's laws were subjugated mostly for Roman law. But let's look at what Jesus was really saying when you take the Greek word.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Matthew 12:28.
Question: What is Christ doing?
Answer: He is casting out demons with the finger of God.
In saying this He is claiming to be a King and the King(dom) of God.
The Greek word is:
kingdom: [Strong's #932] βασιλεία basileia
from [#935] (basileus); properly royalty, i.e. (abstract) rule, or (concrete) a realm (literal or figurative.)
as a noun feminine Jesus is stating He is the King of God.
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:20–21.
With your understanding of "kingdom" how can the traditional definition of "kingdom" as a place, a court, subjects, etc., be within a believer? That makes no sense. But Christ as a Person (third Person of the Trinity) can dwell in a believer and is "within you." Here's more. Saul understood the word:
20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
1 Co 4:19–20.
Christ is the power, not the land, the court, the subjects the way you understand the translated English word and not the Greek word used.
Then there's the "kingdom of heaven." This is New Jerusalem coming down out of the sky, out of heaven:
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2.
Sometimes the Greek word "kingdom" is used concretely and abstractly - even figuratively. You must study this in order to discern the correct rendering. But to read an English translation and use a translation to get doctrine you will fail at being correct and precise if being precise is one of your goals as a student of Christ, who is the Eternal Spirit.
First, the children of promise in the Old Testament are the eventual seed or descendants of Abraham. The Abraham Promises was inherited by Isaac, Jacob after Isaac's death, and Jacob's twelve sons after Jacob's death never having the Abraham promises realized:
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, Hebrew 11:13.
All those in the Hall of Faith of Hebrews 11 are all Hebrew men and women. There is NOT a non-Hebrew Gentile among any of them (except those born before Eber.)
So, the original identification is the Hebrew people as children of (the Abraham) promise(s). Saul, as rabbi and Pharisee know this. He will not violate Old Testament Scripture identifications and change them to apply to non-Hebrew Gentiles. None of the rabbi's and Pharisees, nor even the Sadducees or the Essenes have ever interpreted "children of promise" as anyone other than Hebrews/Jews. So, when Saul says:
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:28–29.
He is referring to Hebrews who are the children or seed of Abraham for the promises of Abraham was at death of the Patriarchs and the sons (12 tribes) inheritors of the Abraham Promises (covenant.) The use of "Greek ["Hellens"] refer to Jews who grew up in Gentile lands as the Diaspora (Exiles) heavily under the cultural influence of Greek culture. They are identified extensively in the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation and never refer to non-Hebrew Gentiles. They were most used of mixed heritage Hebrews of Gentile descent.
To be a "brother" one must have the same father. In referring to Isaac and Saul calling his readers of his letters "brothers" he is addressing Hebrews, NOT Gentiles. It is your interpretation that is in error. Saul is apostle of mixed heritage Jews who were of the Diaspora (Exiled) and grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced for 29-35 generations with Greek culture, the Greek culture left behind by Alexander the Great. There is much that YOU NEED to study of Biblical text and world history. I am a 4.0 student of both. But let's look deeper at Saul's Galatian letter to see WHO he was addressing as recipients of his letter: Hebrews/Jews or non-Hebrew Gentiles:
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:5–26.
all the boldfaced are Hebrew ideas and concepts and terms that are understood by Hebrews. Gentiles had thousands of gods. They were NEVER under a schoolmaster (THE LAW) so why do YOU put them under the Law? That's ADDING to the Bible. The "SPIRIT OF PROMISE" the "HEATHEN" and all these words are understood by Jews NOT GENTILES. Gentiles knew almost NOTHING of the Hebrew religion of the Mosaic Law. They wouldn't understand these Hebrew Scripture terms. So, why do you give them the magical understanding as experts of the Hebrew religion when they were OUTSIDE the Hebrew religion and the Law of Moses???
As I said, you interpret the English translation of the Hebrew Scripture like a Gentile, assigning Gentile definitions and understandings to Hebrew terms, ideas and concepts that are easily understood by a Hebrew mind, the very mind and audience Saul was writing to. You should have "got this" when Saul said, The Law was OUR schoolmaster" meaning "our" refers to Jews.
My God, don't you see the infection of false Constantinian Gentile theology you've been indoctrinated with in your education and study? Your Gentile-authored theology books are rife with misinterpreting Hebrew terms with a Gentile mindset.
Don't you see this? Are you so blinded?
What a damn shame you don't. Open your eyes, fool. Yo are in grave error and just may be in danger of damnation for seeing the One True God as lies.
What I see is one not much different from all those Judaizers that plagued Paul throughout his missionary journeys. You speak of an infection; you are an infection.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
It's your false Constantinian Gentile theology that has infected your mind. You give me the textbook responses. I used to believe that crap. When I saw Scripture contradict those Gentile positions I studied deeper into Scripture under the anointing and the Lord opened my mind to what Scripture said, not what other peoples' bible studies said.
I use Scripture to support my positions but what you do is maintain rigid holding to textbook responses and unwilling to allow Scripture to dictate your beliefs. Instead, you reject Scripture to maintain your false theologies. And like others who cannot withstand the Word of God in me they make comments similar to yours when they cannot resist the truth of what God has said.
God saves through covenant. I find no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. Neither can you find such a covenant of salvation. I quote Joel who said God promised His Spirit to Israel, but you make God out to be a liar by maintaining that Gentiles receive the Spirit, too. I explain that under the Law the high priest offers the blood sacrifice to and for Israel but you turn and say Christ died for Gentiles but there's no evidence the animal sacrifice and the blood sprinkled upon the children of Israel but your position has that the very same high priest went to Gentiles and offered sacrifices for them. The Scripture in Galatians 4:4-5 says Christ died to redeem those under the Law but you reject God's Word to maintain non-Hebrew Gentiles were also atoned by Christ thus making Christ out to breaking with the Law where there is NO EVIDENCE under the Law Gentiles were atoned. Saul clearly states in Galatians 3 that he says the Law was OUR (the Jews) schoolmaster and you reject those words outright to maintain your false Gentile-salvation where and when there is no proof of such a teaching under the Law.
When you want to get serious about what Scripture says and not what Grudem or Hodge or other theologians says then come back. But by rejecting the Word of Truth there's just no sharpening from you.
Nah. As I indicated, you have become just one of those Judaizers that Paul had to deal with throughout his missionary journeys. He complained about guys like you in 2 Corinthians 12:7. I am surprised that you don't demand circumcision -- then, of course, maybe you do.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Saul, too, was a Judaizer. He took issue with his brethren who were not born-again or merely did not understand the atonement as he did when they wanted to circumcise mixed heritage Hebrews who grew up in Gentile lands and were the offspring of 29-35 generations of Jews who were also heavily influenced by Greek culture. They are the people he refers to in this following verse:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh (uncircumcised Jews), who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Ephesians 2:11–13.
They were not the world that Jesus as High Priest did not pray for (John 17:9) before offering Himself on the cross for the children of Israel but were without God in the world.
They were also the people Jesus prayed God would save them "out of the world." with others in their unreligious, and Hellenistic lives being "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel having lived so very long away from Israel and their Temple ways under the Law.
Those Judaizers wanted to circumcise Gentile-influenced Jews because they were Jews but were uncircumcised as I said, being so long away from their Jewish heritage and their Temple ways. Saul's Judaizing brethren did not understand atonement in light of Jesus Christ as their lamb of God. Saul said it was unnecessary to circumcise them in the flesh after being circumcised in the "heart" as prophesied by Ezekiel. In this respect Saul and I teach the same thing, and I am in good company for neither he nor I teach circumcision in answer to your statement.
It is good to be recognized by others as teaching the Law and the prophets along with Saul did. These circumcizers of "Jews among the Gentiles" accused Saul of the same thing you are accusing me, which is why I say the same thing as Saul and you wonder why I teach the Law and the prophets but do not advocate circumcision as you recognize of me.
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Acts 21:21.
As a rabbi and Pharisee Saul continued to teach the Law and the prophets after he became born-again after meeting Jesus on that road to Damascus.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Ac 21:22–24.
There were Jews who were prejudiced against these Gentile-raised, uncircumcised Hellenized Jews whom Saul brought into the Temple. They had a prejudice against them with the same prejudice they had from their mixed heritage brethren Samaritans whom Jesus welcomed into His Church.
28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Acts 21:28.
Saul was a strong advocate of the Law and the Prophets just as I am except we don't teach circumcision of the flesh after they've been already circumcised "of the heart."
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
Acts 24:14.
Thank you for the compliment. Now that I have explained Saul's teachings and mine, I accept your compliment.
And there we see what is at the heart of your misguided religion. The "Gentiles in the flesh" in Ephesians 2:11 are most definitely not Jews, circumcised or uncircumcised. You really have no idea who Paul was or what his God-called purpose was.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Salvation is OF THE JEWS.
Stop contradicting God. Jews writing to other Jews discussing the New Covenant era Israel found herself in. Genesis to Revelation were written by Jews and Jewish Christians to and for other Jews and Jewish Christians. THESE ARE the Hebrew Scripture.
I KNOW I don't make Christ destroy/change the Law. YOU DO.
But I notice you didn't reply to my comment but take the cowards way out to shrug your shoulders and then claim I am wrong and not respond to the Scripture I posted and the comments I make in support of those Scriptures.
I'm used to it. It astounds me but I am used to it. I defend what I believe but you rank out.
God saves through covenant.
But God made no covenant with Gentiles.
God promised the Holy Spirit to Israel (Joel) but you make God apply it to Gentiles. Why do you contradict God?
Under the Law an animal was sacrificed to temporarily atone for the sins of the children of Israel. The high priest sprinkled the blood on the children of Israel. Christ said He did not come to destroy (change) the Law, but you force God and make Him apply the blood of the sacrifice to uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Gentiles.
Where in the Law did God instruct the high priest to leave the Temple, travel to the Gentiles and offer sacrifices to atone for their sin? WHERE is that in the Law? Where is that in Scripture.
But you hold that Gentiles can become saved thus contradicting God and His Law He gave to Israel.
All you have to do is show me the Scripture describing the high priest doing this. And if Christ said He came to FULFILL the Law and all its precepts, to say Gentiles can become saved when they were never under the Law nor did the high priest offer sacrifices for their sin you make Christ and God out to be LIARS. And THAT is your teaching.
The "book" of Hebrews was written to the Hebrew people. James wrote to the twelve tribes of Israel scattered. Revelation is a prophecy having Israel as the central character/people of this prophecy. The gospels record the life of Jesus bar Joseph, and their purpose was so that all Israel may have life in His Name.
It is your false theology that is inconsistent with the Old Testament. IF you can prove to me Gentiles were included in the Mosaic Covenant Law and the high priest offered sacrifices for Gentiles, then after Christ ascended then I would not challenge any teaching saying Gentiles post-cross can become saved.
BUT I CAN'T. The reason being that God made no salvation covenant (Mosaic Covenant) with non-Hebrew Gentiles and your theology of Gentiles being saved contradicts the truth of the Word of God in the Old Testament.
I am right. You are wrong.
And that's all, folks!
jeremiah1five
Active Member
I asked ChatGPT a question:
[Then] show me Scripture in the Law of the high priest offering sacrifices for the sins of Gentiles, where the high priest sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice upon Gentiles.
ChatGPT responded:
You have correctly identified a critical point. There is no Scripture in the Law of Moses that describes the high priest offering sacrifices specifically for the sins of uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Gentiles, nor is there any mention of him sprinkling the blood of a sacrifice upon them.
The Law of Moses and its sacrificial system were a specific covenantal arrangement between God and the nation of Israel. The sacrificial offerings and the role of the high priest were for the purpose of maintaining Israel's relationship with God, atoning for their sins, and cleansing them from ritual impurity.
CORRECT-O-MUNDO!
Adding to the Bible is a sin.
[Then] show me Scripture in the Law of the high priest offering sacrifices for the sins of Gentiles, where the high priest sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice upon Gentiles.
ChatGPT responded:
You have correctly identified a critical point. There is no Scripture in the Law of Moses that describes the high priest offering sacrifices specifically for the sins of uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Gentiles, nor is there any mention of him sprinkling the blood of a sacrifice upon them.
The Law of Moses and its sacrificial system were a specific covenantal arrangement between God and the nation of Israel. The sacrificial offerings and the role of the high priest were for the purpose of maintaining Israel's relationship with God, atoning for their sins, and cleansing them from ritual impurity.
CORRECT-O-MUNDO!
Adding to the Bible is a sin.
