Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Joel: New Covenants, New Hearts, and a Holy Spirit
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
I hate to be the one to bring you the bad news, but the Jews as a nation got a lot of things wrong.
Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." 8 This means that it is NOT the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
No, they haven't.
It's YOUR Gentile-biased interpretation that is wrong. God promised the nine kings and their families NOTHING!!!
They represent the world. And God promised them NOTHING!!!
BUT God did promise Abraham and his seed ("IN THEE") certain things such as land and being a great family that surpass the number of stars Abraham could see in his electric-less night sky.
In your passage above the children of the flesh are Ishmael and his seed. They are BLESSED by virtue of Abraham's covenant, but they are NOT in the covenant. IF ISHMAEL was NOT born through Hagar there would be NO CONFUSION. But Abraham brought confusion into the mix when they tried to bring God's promise of an heir through a servant woman instead of His own body and the body of Sarai ("IN THEE.")
It is hard to imagine a more unintelligent reading of God's word than you present in post after post. You really have no idea whatsoever the what and the why of God's choosing of Israel. It really is pathetic. Goodbye.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
See that. You have no answer to the points I make in the OT because you have a Gentile interpretation of Hebrew Scripture. It's error. The ONLY WAY to interpret the Hebrew Scripture - Matthew to Revelation - is with a Hebrew mindset, not a Gentile one.
That's OK. You're not the only one to drop out when I bring the truth of the OT Scripture out as originally written - to a Hebrew audience.
It's like an American high school student trying to interpret Sanskrit as an American, free-world, thinker and not like a Indian person who would KNOW - IN TIME - what Sanskrit means in its original language to Indians. Jesus bar Joseph was truly who He said He was in the 1st century - the fulfillment of the Old Testament promises and prophecies. He was NOT a fulfillment of Roman, Assyrian, Babylonian or any other religious personality of these Gentile nations.
Jesus was Jewish and the fulfillment of the prophecies and Promises of the Law of Moses.
He is a Jewish King to and for the Jewish people specifically to save and deliver the Jewish people from ALL their enemies.
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Deut. 18:15.
and
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deut. 18:18.
It's not hard to understand. Assyrian king is for Assyria, Babylon king for Babylon, and a Jewish king for the Jews.
Jesus is King fo the Jews, NOT the king of Babylon or Asgard. Odin is NOT the "all father" but God is. He is All Father to ALL the Jews. And the Jews have covenant to prove it.
Gentiles do not have covenant with God. Never have, never will.
Keep your Gentile-based interpretation of the Hebrew Scripture. That will be your undoing and I find that most true born-again believers do in time become master of the OT and see their writings as a Hebrew and not as a Gentile - especially when Gentiles interpret the Hebrew Scripture with a western world, free world, American mindset and not as a Hebrew merely studying Hebrew Scripture as a Hebrew citizen.
I been studying the Bible for nearly half a century. And given my call of the Lord is necessary I know the truth or I will be called a false prophet.
This is my call:
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jeremiah 1:5.
And this is my command:
10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Jeremiah 1:10.
John the Baptist was called of God "in spirit and power of Elijah" and like Jeremiah I have the same instruction. I will continue to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down the false things most say about the One True God and I am not alone. There are many "Jeremiah's" and "Elijah's" and Ezra's" and "Nehemiah's" and Habakkuk's" out there doing the same thing as I. Setting the stage for Israel's revelation that Jesus bar Joseph was truly the King of the Jews.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:23–24.
Those that claim as most Gentiles do, that the Law is no longer valid, are contradiction. You cannot claim "I serve the one and only God" when you have rejected "thou shalt have no other gods before thee."
What you seem not to understand is that God did not choose the nation Israel for salvation. The OT Scriptures do not present the plan of salvation. The OT Scriptures present the bringing of the plan of salvation to the world. In the OT Scriptures there is only the promise of the coming of the Messiah. It is the NT Scriptures that gives, not the promise of the coming of the Messiah, but rather the actual coming of the Messiah.
All you have as an OT Jew is the animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin. But you have no means of entering the kingdom of God. It is only in the NT that you have access to the kingdom of God.
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, not alll are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring (Rom 9:6-8).
Which are you? Do you belong to Israel. You have claim that you are a child of the flesh. That doesn't cut it. And that was the statement of a Jew who knew a lot more about the OT than you.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The Old Testament is a record of God and the Hebrew people. It is filled with references of their eventual deliverance from their enemies - sin being one of those enemies - which salvation is clearly described in the Ceremonial Law of the Mosaic Covenant between God and the Hebrew people in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle whom God delivered out of Egypt.
In the Old Testament Gentiles (Moabites, Philistines, etc.), are the enemy of the Hebrews and God delivers them militarily many times. But through the Mosaic Covenant God estanlishes the Ceremonial Laws which address Israel's sin(s) and provides a temporary atonement from sin and establishes a future day when God delivers Israel from ALL their political and military enemies. Revelation says this in chapter 19, 20, 21.
The Kingdom of God is not a place, He is a Person.
The Kingdom of Heaven is a place and it is New Jerusalem.
Romans 9:6-8 refers to the difference between Ishmael and Isaac. The children of the flesh or bondage (Hagar) are Ishmael's descendants.
The children of Promise are Isaac's seed.
I am still learning about Hebrew people, culture, politics, military, religion, the whole ball of wax.
I know enough through Scripture to present a total Hebrew salvation excluding non-Hebrew Gentiles who were NEVER under the Law and NEVER among Christ's atonement.
You are delusional. The kingdom of God is the kingdom of Heaven. The Old Covenant established a means for forgiveness of sin, but not the payment for the penalty of is (Heb 10L4).
Children of the Promise are neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female (Gal 3:28).
Gal 1:2 and all the brothers who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:
Gal 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Brothers -- Mostly Gentiles, some Jews. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles (Eph 3:1-13); they are his brothers.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The animal sacrifice was killed as substitutionary sacrifice for sin and you say there's no punishment for sin in the Old Testament (Law)? You are again wrong. Study the Old Testament and go forward to the New Covenant letters and gospels in order to rightly understand what the apostles are saying about their studies of the Old Testament.
And you make a mistake about what - or should I say WHO - the kingdom of God is. When Christ came He said many times "the kingdom of God" but the fact is there was no kingdom as you define His words. Israel was an occupied territory. There was no king, no land (it was occupied), no subjects, no court, no realm and the totality of Israel's laws were subjugated mostly for Roman law. But let's look at what Jesus was really saying when you take the Greek word.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Matthew 12:28.
Question: What is Christ doing?
Answer: He is casting out demons with the finger of God.
In saying this He is claiming to be a King and the King(dom) of God.
The Greek word is:
kingdom: [Strong's #932] βασιλεία basileia
from [#935] (basileus); properly royalty, i.e. (abstract) rule, or (concrete) a realm (literal or figurative.)
as a noun feminine Jesus is stating He is the King of God.
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17:20–21.
With your understanding of "kingdom" how can the traditional definition of "kingdom" as a place, a court, subjects, etc., be within a believer? That makes no sense. But Christ as a Person (third Person of the Trinity) can dwell in a believer and is "within you." Here's more. Saul understood the word:
20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
1 Co 4:19–20.
Christ is the power, not the land, the court, the subjects the way you understand the translated English word and not the Greek word used.
Then there's the "kingdom of heaven." This is New Jerusalem coming down out of the sky, out of heaven:
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2.
Sometimes the Greek word "kingdom" is used concretely and abstractly - even figuratively. You must study this in order to discern the correct rendering. But to read an English translation and use a translation to get doctrine you will fail at being correct and precise if being precise is one of your goals as a student of Christ, who is the Eternal Spirit.
First, the children of promise in the Old Testament are the eventual seed or descendants of Abraham. The Abraham Promises was inherited by Isaac, Jacob after Isaac's death, and Jacob's twelve sons after Jacob's death never having the Abraham promises realized:
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, Hebrew 11:13.
All those in the Hall of Faith of Hebrews 11 are all Hebrew men and women. There is NOT a non-Hebrew Gentile among any of them (except those born before Eber.)
So, the original identification is the Hebrew people as children of (the Abraham) promise(s). Saul, as rabbi and Pharisee know this. He will not violate Old Testament Scripture identifications and change them to apply to non-Hebrew Gentiles. None of the rabbi's and Pharisees, nor even the Sadducees or the Essenes have ever interpreted "children of promise" as anyone other than Hebrews/Jews. So, when Saul says:
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:28–29.
He is referring to Hebrews who are the children or seed of Abraham for the promises of Abraham was at death of the Patriarchs and the sons (12 tribes) inheritors of the Abraham Promises (covenant.) The use of "Greek ["Hellens"] refer to Jews who grew up in Gentile lands as the Diaspora (Exiles) heavily under the cultural influence of Greek culture. They are identified extensively in the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation and never refer to non-Hebrew Gentiles. They were most used of mixed heritage Hebrews of Gentile descent.
To be a "brother" one must have the same father. In referring to Isaac and Saul calling his readers of his letters "brothers" he is addressing Hebrews, NOT Gentiles. It is your interpretation that is in error. Saul is apostle of mixed heritage Jews who were of the Diaspora (Exiled) and grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced for 29-35 generations with Greek culture, the Greek culture left behind by Alexander the Great. There is much that YOU NEED to study of Biblical text and world history. I am a 4.0 student of both. But let's look deeper at Saul's Galatian letter to see WHO he was addressing as recipients of his letter: Hebrews/Jews or non-Hebrew Gentiles:
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:5–26.
all the boldfaced are Hebrew ideas and concepts and terms that are understood by Hebrews. Gentiles had thousands of gods. They were NEVER under a schoolmaster (THE LAW) so why do YOU put them under the Law? That's ADDING to the Bible. The "SPIRIT OF PROMISE" the "HEATHEN" and all these words are understood by Jews NOT GENTILES. Gentiles knew almost NOTHING of the Hebrew religion of the Mosaic Law. They wouldn't understand these Hebrew Scripture terms. So, why do you give them the magical understanding as experts of the Hebrew religion when they were OUTSIDE the Hebrew religion and the Law of Moses???
As I said, you interpret the English translation of the Hebrew Scripture like a Gentile, assigning Gentile definitions and understandings to Hebrew terms, ideas and concepts that are easily understood by a Hebrew mind, the very mind and audience Saul was writing to. You should have "got this" when Saul said, The Law was OUR schoolmaster" meaning "our" refers to Jews.
My God, don't you see the infection of false Constantinian Gentile theology you've been indoctrinated with in your education and study? Your Gentile-authored theology books are rife with misinterpreting Hebrew terms with a Gentile mindset.
Don't you see this? Are you so blinded?
What a damn shame you don't. Open your eyes, fool. Yo are in grave error and just may be in danger of damnation for seeing the One True God as lies.
What I see is one not much different from all those Judaizers that plagued Paul throughout his missionary journeys. You speak of an infection; you are an infection.
