Dizerner
Active Member
I regret to inform you that you are literally going nowhere.
And it's not legalism to fear God.
James' Teaching On Justification: Before Men Or Before God?
- Thread starter Titus
- Start date
I regret to inform you that you are literally going nowhere.
And it's not legalism to fear God.
civic
Active Member
Perfect love casts out all fear. The one who fears is not perfected in love.
I will quote a version a babe can understand
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love [dread does not exist]. But perfect (complete, full-grown) love drives out fear, because fear involves [the expectation of divine] punishment, so the one who is afraid [of God’s judgment] is not perfected in love [has not grown into a sufficient understanding of God’s love]
Titus
Active Member
It will be a short debate.
Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes for the jew first and also for the greek
Paul teaches the gospel is where God works His power to save.
Calvin's followers teach regeneration i.e. born again must take place before one truly believes in Christ.
You've already lost the debate.
Calvinism: born again in order to believe the gospel.
Gods word:- being born again not of corruptible seed but incorruptible by the word of God,
Which liveth and abideth forever and this is the word which by the gospel is preached to you, 1Peter 1:23,25
- of His own will begat He us with the word of truth that we should be a kind of first fruits
Ephesians 1:13,
- in whom ye trusted after that ye heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
Note the order in Ephesians 1:13,
1st. The heard the gospel.
2nd after hearing they believed the gospel, Romans 10:17.
3rd after believing they were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.
Calvinism's gospel:
1st. The cherry picked elect are miraculously by direct operation saved by the Holy Spirit and sealed to persevere until death or the return of Christ.
They already are saved recieved the Holy Spirit and this all takes place before faith, in order to have trusting faith.
2nd They understand the scriptures and believe and have a new miraculous desire to obey the commandments of God. All through miraculous means.
3rd. They start becoming puffed up thinking they are the elect. Their superiority complex causes them to feel pity for those who cannot grasp their "superior" theological system of the Scriptures.
When debating non- calvinist they will point out to you multiple times that you just dont understand calvinism because you are a depraved reprobate that God hates, and by His good pleasure has created you for the soul purpose to burn in hell for eternal punishment based upon your depraved sinful nature.
A sinful nature given to you before birth not based upon any sin you committed but inherited through the sins of another man, and given a totally corrupt innate sinful nature by Gods sovereign decree. A determined destination with zero hope of being given any ability to change.
1 Corinthians 4:15,
- for thou we have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers, for I have begotten you through the gospel
Paul clearly was not a calvinist for he taught those he preached to were spiritually born again through the gospel.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14,
- God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth whereunto He called you by our gospel to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ
God call us to salvation through His gospel.
The new testament consistently teaches we are born again, begotten, saved, through the gospel.
Notice Cornelius was not saved until he heard words from the preaching of Peter.
Acts 11:14,
- who shall tell thee words (gospel) whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved
civic
Active Member
And you can add Romans 10:8-17 to the list
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
There is a huge difference my friend .
You are mistaking the fear of GOD
for the fear of man . WE are to fear GOD .
BUT here is the fear of GOD .
The fear of GOD is to depart from evil .
ITS man we ought not to fear or what he can do to us .
Fearfulness of situtations and of men is a snare .
But to fear GOD is a good thing .
KNOWING that HE DESIRES ONLY GOOD FOR US .
From all HIS warnings to all His words
THEY are meant for our good and that we take well heed unto them .
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge
The fear of man IS A SNARE .
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You're conflating. Fear begins knowledge. It doesn't complete the journey.
Again. You're misrepresenting the Scriptures.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
You're missing so many things here.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
John didn't lie did he? Seems rather obvious to me.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
A man should be fearful of being alone. Left only to his own efforts.
Jesus gradually built a relationship with his disciples where he called them "friends".
People see what they want to see in all of this. His beliefs fit the narrative he wants to focus upon. It doesn't match what God has said about Himself.
Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
civic
Active Member
Amen
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
IT is obvious . but the fear john was talking about
was not the fear of GOD .
Fear does have torment . no doubt about that .
But what is the fear of GOD .
TO DEPART from evil . ITS NOT the idea GOD is just waiting to destroy us .
Many live in fear , fear of man.
fear of death . fear of situations and circumsetances .
BUT here is a simple truth .
GOD DOES DESIRE GOOD FOR US . And from HIS every warning to PROMISE
ITS all for our good and works to the good of those who love GOD ,
People often see GOD in the wrong light also .
EITHER they go way out of their way to create a false goodness of GOD that seems to accept evil
and call good evil and evil good
OR they so terrified that all GOD does is sit around waiting to destroy them .
The fear of GOD is the beginning of Knoweldge .
but the fear of man is a snare .
civic
Active Member
My children feared me when they were young now they are adults have no fear of me and love conquers all fear.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
There has to be a certain amount of fear/reverence in children until they grow into maturity to understand why we do the things we do. It is part of the process of knowing and becoming like our Master. So many parallels to be found here in our natural relationships with each other in humanity.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
THANK GOD HE IS WITH THE SHEEP
cause before He drew me i was alone .
Doing great evil and also doing things i thought were good .
BUT I WAS LOST and in darkness .
Lets add something to what you wrote about JESUS calling them friends .
Because its true , HE DID call them friends .
I HAVE CALLED YOU FRIENDS , IF YA DO whatsoever i command you .
many seem to have zero desire to follow and obey Him .
But then many are just like i once was
LOST and dont realize it . cause i could also lip HIS NAME . pretty scary huh .
SO lets all examine what it is we truly DO love .
IS IT TRUTH , or is it twisted things .
Charity rejoices IN TRUTH . not in inquity .
SO the TRUTH IS
if a man loveth NOT TRUTH
THEN HE DARN SURE DONT LOVE HE WHO IS TRUTH and inspires only truth .
many call the words of GOD and of CHRIST hate speech .
many call JESUS a liar as they do exactly what HE said NOT TO DO .
Many claim to have even the SPIRIT
but my question to us all is
WHAT IS THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT .
ITS IN ALL GOODNESS RIGHTEOUSNESS and TRUTH
proving what is acceptable to GOD . and SIN AINT .
many have this fruit
the fruit of the wicked IS TO SIN and they darn sure seem to love that .
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I disagree. I know what you're trying to say.
Fearing God is an indication of not having a properly relationship with God. It is literally how we can know that we are sons of God.
Dizerner
Active Member
John was NOT talking about fearing God, that is absurd and actually evil to claim.
It is even a Satanic level of deception to think fearing God is evil.
Stack up the Scriptures that praise fearing God—to one that does not specify a fear of God in particular.
You will have hundreds and hundreds to one twisted misinterpretation.
If the conscience wasn't so hardened and the Spirit resisted time after time after time, a person would feel shame for that.
It is even a Satanic level of deception to think fearing God is evil.
Stack up the Scriptures that praise fearing God—to one that does not specify a fear of God in particular.
You will have hundreds and hundreds to one twisted misinterpretation.
If the conscience wasn't so hardened and the Spirit resisted time after time after time, a person would feel shame for that.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
because your misunderstanding what i mean by the fear of the LORD .
The fear of the LORD is to depart from evil .
Paul was no monster
but he too said the truth .
KNOWING THE TERROR OF GOD we persaude men .
persaude them to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
the terror of GOD is HIS WRATH . which of course is RIGHTEOUS and we darn sure all deserved it too .
TRUST IN HIM , IN CHRIST . GOD is with the sheep .
You must be thinking i am meaning the wrong kind of fear .
But you wont see me preaching that kind of fear .
cause that kind of fear has folks NOT even knowing or beleiving they can know
THEY ARE EVEN SAVED TILL THE END .
But that my friend , means THEY AINT TRUSTING IN CHRIST AT ALL .
I KNOW i have eternal life .
JESUS done all that was required for ME . i dont live in the wrong kind of fear .
BUT IN THE RIGHT KIND , to depart FROM EVIL .
AND EVEN GOD DID THAT by the SPIRIT HE put within me .
OH , yeah , I DIDNT CHANGE Myself . HE DID .
HE did . this branch can only BOAST IN THE GLORIOUS LORD . darn sure not in me , BUT IN GOD , IN CHRIST .
hope that helps .
Dizerner
Active Member
Keep the faith, you're an inspiration.
civic
Active Member
1 John 4:16-21 refutes your false claims . Read the context it’s all about God and love
praise_yeshua
Active Member
How nice of you.
I never used the word "evil". Quote me. Why are you being a "false witness"?
Again. How nice of you.
I've been "stacking them up"..... Where are your references.....?
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