civic
Well-known member
Was the Father, Son and Holy Spirit existing in relationship ?
Can a relationship exists apart from time and sequence ?
Jacob and Esau
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Can a relationship exists apart from time and sequence ?
civic
Well-known member
Where is time called a thing ?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
This is why I have been very "careful" with what I've said. I said before man. I didn't say before earth nor universe.
civic
Well-known member
When did God decide to create ?
Thinking , deciding has sequence.
Does God have a rational mind ?
Does God think ?
How long before deciding to create did God actually create ?
Next
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
If it's not before earth nor universe, then one could argue that time began when God created the universe.
Just give me scripture references that time existed BEFORE the beginning and that YHVH, Messiah and the Holy Spirit is somehow "passive in the affairs of the kosmos"
civic
Well-known member
No that’s up to you to prove time did not exist prior to creation. That’s your burden to prove since you believe it, not me.
Bait n switch doesn’t work on me.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
There is nothing (Scripture nor nature) that actually establishes this. "The beginning" is always relative to context. That context is obviously mankind. Before the world was created. God purposed Christ.
Even God is subject to planning. Even God's thoughts are predicated upon sequence. One thought upon another. Reason. It is never a single thought encompassing everything relative to God.
Precept UPON Precept. Line upon. A house upon a foundation.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Endless ages/time is clearly established in Deity/Divinity.
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Was Christ purposed before?????
1Pe_1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
civic
Well-known member
No, time in our realm came into being. It does not mean time did not exist in Gods realm.
I have nothing to prove since I don't claim to know it all.No that’s up to you to prove time did not exist prior to creation. That’s your burden to prove since you believe it, not me.
Bait n switch doesn’t work on me.
Isaiah 40:13-14
"Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord, or as His counselor has taught Him? With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him, and taught Him in the path of justice? Who taught Him knowledge, and showed Him the way of understanding?"
Meaning: These verses emphasize God's wisdom and knowledge, which are far beyond human understanding and counsel.
Job 11:7-9
"Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than the heavens above—what can you do? They are deeper than the depths below—what can you know? Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea."
Meaning: Zophar, one of Job's friends, speaks about the incomprehensibility of God's wisdom and knowledge, highlighting that humans cannot fully understand the ways of God.
Psalm 139:6
"Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain."
Meaning: David acknowledges that the knowledge and understanding of God are beyond human reach and comprehension.
New Testament
Romans 11:33-34
"Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! 'Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?'"
Meaning: Paul exclaims the profound wisdom and knowledge of God, quoting Isaiah 40:13 to emphasize that God's mind is beyond human understanding.
1 Corinthians 2:16
"'For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?' But we have the mind of Christ."
Meaning: Paul again quotes Isaiah 40:13 to underscore the mystery of God's wisdom, but he also notes that believers, through the Holy Spirit, can share in the mind of Christ, gaining spiritual insight.
These references collectively illustrate that the knowledge and wisdom of God are beyond human comprehension, highlighting both the transcendence and the immanence of God. The New Testament passages, while acknowledging the incomprehensibility of God's mind, also provide hope that through the Holy Spirit, believers can gain insight into God's will and purposes.
I would rather humbly submit to my Lord Jesus Christ and His word-the above references is enough to make anyone humble and not to think too highly of himself and that includes me.
Shalom.
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civic
Well-known member
None of those passages have anything to do with time existing or not prior to creation of our tiny universe.
I have provided enough scriptural data and from rabbinical sources that "time" indeed was created though the Bible does not explicitly mention it.
You are not intimidating me brother-in fact, far from it.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I saw maybe one actually quote. I didn't verify it but you certainly repeated commentary from someone that doesn't know what they're talking about.
I'm not trying to intimidate anyone. Neither is @civic
I am trying to get an response.
wake up
You believe they were unconditionally elected to be saved before the foundation of the earth
You do not believe they were saved at that time
you do believe they were saved later in time
so your view is simply God had a plan to save those men at some future time
you cannot escape it
it was not a reality that they were saved before the foundation of the earth
therefore it can only be a plan, an intension, a purpose chose your word
o
However-the Scripture always refers to the "timelessness" of God, Messiah and the Holy Spirit.
civic
Well-known member
Outside sources are an appeal to authority fallacy
Yet you are using outside sources as well-amazing.
God is timeless, not bound by time-Haya an en-
Transliteration: ēn
Morphology: V-IIA-3S
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's no.: G1510 (εἰμί)
Meaning: To be, exist.
I'll let you figure this out for yourself.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
He has been quoting Scripture. So have I. You asked for Scripture from me and I have provided it over and over again. Can you address each commit and deal with the Scriptures provided?
civic
Well-known member
I have not used any outside source regarding time. That’s from your camp not mine. It comes from the wisdom of man , not Gods word.
Where does God say “ I created time “ ?
Sola Scripture
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