DavidTree
Well-known member
The Jewish people were permanently attached to the Temple in Jerusalem.
THINK my mishpocha
Israel is the Elect of God
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
The Jewish people were permanently attached to the Temple in Jerusalem.
THINK my mishpocha
DavidTree
Well-known member
EXCELLENT response my mishpocha
Now for the Kosher Challenge of the Day:
The first house was destroyed and another has replaced it.
Is this 'replacement' theology???
or
Is this the Work of Elohim???
Shalom
David Koberstein
Active member
I honor and do not work on Shabbat (Saturday). She is free to work on Saturday with her internet business. I do not eat pork or shell fish, but she is free to eat and she does eat pulled pork and shell fish. I use and study my Complete Jewish Bible and she uses the NKJV. My wife is illiterate on the Old Testament, but she asks me about Jewish customs and the characters of the Old Testament. My wife is of Irish ancestry.
Shalom
David Koberstein
Active member
If we are talking about a physical house then maybe it's the work of a governmental housing project? Lol
Seriously, when I read the word theology I think about Adonai/Yeshua and not a physical house. To fully answer your question; In the providence of Adonai the answer is neither. If we are talking philosophically then Elohim; when I say that I think about the first Temple being destroyed and the second Temple replacing it. And of course the second Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.
Shalom
DavidTree
Well-known member
My wife is Jewish and she received Salvation thru the Jewish Messiah Yeshua Ha-Mashiach within our first year of marriage.
We have been married for 35 years now.
Well, it is Good that you do not force Old Covenant law upon a New Covenant Saint under Grace!
What about the 3rd Temple???
David Koberstein
Active member
Acts 10:34-35 CJB
"God does not play favorites, but...whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what people he belongs to."
The rabbis likewise teach that among the nations there are righteous people "who have a share in the world to come" or who are "Righteous among the Nations" (Sanhedrin 13:2). Such "Righteous among the Nations"
are often defined as keeping the seven Noachide laws (laws given to Noah that were relevant to all humanity). Acts 15:20 mentions three of these laws.
Shalom
DavidTree
Well-known member
Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. The word which God sent to the [l]children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom [m]they killed by hanging on a tree. Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
And those of the circumcision(Jews) who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter,
because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
i SEE two Noachide laws in this passage as follows:
1.) "in every nation whoever fears Him"
2.) "works righteousness is accepted by Him"
What is the 3rd that you see???
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
That is exactly correct. All the New Covenant writings (Matthew to Revelation) are is discussion, explanation, and expressions by Jewish Christians to and for Jews and other Jewish Christians about the New Covenant era Israel found themselves in. There needed to be "searching the Scripture" (Gen. to Malachi) in order to make sense and understand the things God was doing with the Hebrew nation the Jews. After the life, death, burial, resurrection, and the ascension of Jesus Christ, coupled with the Advent of the Holy Spirit things needed to be reasoned out and comprehension attuned to the things God was doing in and among the Jewish people. Saul, two years after he met Jesus on the road to Damascus took a sabbatical for 14-17 years with his books and other material in order to search the Scripture and understand Jesus and the New Covenant era the Jews were in. The result was fourteen letters to fellow Jewish Christians in the cities he visited with Barnabas and later with Silas. Consider it a fact-finding mission and to preach Jesus to the Jews in their synagogues.
I see the OT the foundation and the New Covenant writings as attempts at understanding what was going on in Israel and how Jesus Messiah and the Holy Spirit of Promise affected the Abraham and Mosaic covenants. Israel had four decades to do this before the destruction of their way of life and their Temple. I believe it was the half-Jew/half-Gentile who lived as Gentiles - some as proselytes, others as God-Fearers - but Jew-Gentile mixed heritage that went forward without Hebrew input and leadership and soon Gentiles unmoored true biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots and things went downward and sideways from that time on. The Jewish Church shifted to Antioch, a Roman city and with Gentile leanings Jewish Christianity, the Christianity of the bible became a new religion with Gentiles looking at Hebrew history with a Gentile mindset. Soon enough the Jewishness of true biblical Christianity ceased to exist, and Gentiles stole everything belonging to Israel for their own, seeing the destruction of the Jewish Temple as judgment from God and the end of Jewish Christianity. The Times of the Gentiles was in full swing and just as the destruction of the Jewish Temple ended the Hebrew nation, so, too, will God end the times of the Gentiles with the destruction of the Gentile nations.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Do you even understand what Jesus was teaching? He didn't change the Law of tooth for tooth and eye for eye, but upheld it.You just spat on Matthew 5:38-39, the words of Christ Himself!
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Well, I haven't been to Canaan. But they are living in and around Canaan.
Carry on with your abrogated Judaizing Ethnic-Cleansing Delirium and Insanity.
Do you even understand English? Notice the word "but" right after the "eye for an eye" sentence?
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
The word "but" is often used in two major ways:
- To express a contrast. For example, "Jenny is tall, but her parents are short" is an example of but used to show contrast.
- To express an exception. For example, "I would go to the party, but I have to study for my exam" is an example of but used to show an exception.
There is no country or territory called Canaan. Therefore, God's mission concerning the Canaanites has been accomplished and fulfilled. There is nothing more to be done.
Listen, vengeance has been replaced by love in Christianity.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
At this point, you might say hey wait a minute, are we to just allow our loved ones to be killed without defending them? Of course not. That's why God has established governments, police authorities, and judges to protect the innocent. The Law is there to protect the law abiding innocent people like you and me.
brightfame52
Well-known member
you are racist if you think God chose Abraham and his seed because of his ethnicity. Thats the sin of pride ! Pride is the condemnation of the devil 1 Tim 3:6
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
brightfame52
Well-known member
No he is not a respecter of persons, God didn't have respect unto Abel because of his ethnicity, that's your racism and confidence in the flesh and wickedness projecting that wicked ideology. What is said there about those brothers has nothing to do with their "jewish ethnicity" Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: The sin of fleshly pride !
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Anyone living in the area once called Canaan is a Canaanite or called something else living or from the land which used to be called Canaan. The language of the bible is of a time far removed. It's the same as Peter saying in his letter addressed to "Babylon."
13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son. 1 Pete 5:13.
The biblical language is antiquated yet still holds meaning if one today was to understand it.
Not so. God has both and Scripture records both. The Lord said, "vengeance is mine" as He also elsewhere declares His love for His Chosen Israel:
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: Deut. 7:6–7.
There is only ONE Law God gave to His covenant people Israel. Your referring to governments, police, or authorities are from men who copy God's Law yet still remain in rebellion against God. Under the Jewish theocracy in the desert at the time of Moses and the Tabernacle God's Law was the government and police authority. His Law/Word was Law of the land. And Jesus came to teach His people what is contained in the Law and on the subject of "strike for strike" Jesus upholds the Law He gave to Moses to and for the children of Israel to follow and obey. Every contingency is found in the Law of God for the children of Israel to follow and obey.
What is Jesus doing here on the mount? He says outright He did not come to destroy/change the Law. What is said in Leviticus concerning eye for eye and tooth for tooth and life for life, etc., is not changed by anything He says in these statements:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mt 5:17–19.
Whatever your interpretation of Jesus' teaching of the Law to His people concludes, this one fact remains. Jesus is not doing anything to the Law but upholding it as written in Leviticus, Your interpretation of "but" to mean Jesus is cancelling some aspect of the Law would be an erroneous interpretation for before Jesus teaches anything about the Law, He is establishing it. He did not come to destroy the Law and any change in the Law would do just that. Therefore, He is upholding everything written in the Law without change. The Law as written might be in the letter, but Jesus is teaching the spirit of the Law in question and that answer is found in Leviticus.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Mt 5:38–39.
What does it mean to be "smitten on the right cheek"? The answer depends on how one is smitten or struck.
Is the hand open to slap, or is the hand closed in a fist? How do you suppose Jesus' hearers are understanding "strike for strike"? How has it always been understood by the Jews under the Law? Essentially, subtlety is about the quality of being difficult to detect, while nuance is about the existence of subtle differences. And there are subtle nuances in Jesus' teaching as He upholds the Law on these subjects.
One nuance is that your opponent would be standing in front of you. Another is how the strike falls on the right cheek. Unless one uses the back of the hand, he would have cocked his arm to the left side of his body to strike the right cheek with the back of the hand. Or if the strike is sinister then the person facing you would strike you with a fist or the open palm. If this is the case, and it is, then the person strikes you with the left hand and an open palm (to slap.) Either way, the left hand is in play and in Latin the 'left' has connotation of meaning "sinister." Jesus is not teaching about a righteous blow but an unjust strike. Jesus was struck with an open palm:
22 And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so?
23 Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?
John 18:22–23.
The specific mention of the palm of the hand is indeed significant. It suggests a deliberate act of humiliation and disrespect, rather than simply a forceful blow. The open palm, as opposed to a closed fist, carries a connotation of contempt and is often associated with striking someone inferior. This detail emphasizes the guards' view of Jesus as someone without authority or dignity. In short, Jesus was struck in same fashion that slaves are struck for some misdeed or failure. But it was an unjust strike.
Now if the strike was sinister and unjust by using the left hand to strike the right cheek, Jesus says "to turn to him also the left cheek" but why? It is possible that now that the strike occurred by the left hand upon the right cheek, the arm is now at the right side of the body of the striker. If the striker has been offered the left cheek, then he would in repeat fashion bring the back of his hand in opposite arc to strike the left cheek and thus is how nobles and men of reputation are struck by an equal.
And this is the meaning of "strike for strike."
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Mt 5:38–39.
In Hebrew culture Jesus' hearers understood that He was teaching the Law, not breaking it.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @jeremiah1five,
Matthew 24:21-22, is quoted from Daniel 12:1:-
'And at that time shall Michael stand up,
the great prince which standeth for the children of Thy People:
and there shall be a time of trouble,
such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:
and at that time Thy People shall be delivered,
every one that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.'
(Dan 12:1-2)
* The words, 'Thy People', are only ever used of the nation of Israel.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @jeremiah1five,
Israel will again be, 'The People of God', though they are at present in a Loammi condition, '... not My People' I believe.
Israel is not 'The Bride', though that chosen company is called out from among them: It is called, 'a holy nation,' yes, and they will again be God's, 'Elect'. The Old Covenant, was made with Israel, and the New Covenant will also be made with redeemed Israel.
'Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;'
(Rom. 9:4)
'Now I say that Jesus Christ
was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God,
to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:'
(Rom.15:8)
* It is true that throughout time Christians have taken what is written in The Word of God regarding Israel, and have applied it to themselves, because they have failed to adopt the principle of 2 Timothy 2:15, by 'rightly dividing the word of truth'
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Complete
Well-known member
'Now I say that Jesus Christ
was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God,
to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
And that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy;
as it is written,
For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto Thy Name.
And again He saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with His People.
And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud Him, all ye People.
And again, Esaias saith,
There shall be a root of Jesse, and He that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles;
in Him shall the Gentiles trust.
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing,
that ye may abound in hope,
through the power of the Holy Ghost.'
(Rom 15:8-13)
Praise God!
was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God,
to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
And that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy;
as it is written,
For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto Thy Name.
And again He saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with His People.
And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud Him, all ye People.
And again, Esaias saith,
There shall be a root of Jesse, and He that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles;
in Him shall the Gentiles trust.
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing,
that ye may abound in hope,
through the power of the Holy Ghost.'
(Rom 15:8-13)
Praise God!
DavidTree
Well-known member
The LORD Jesus did this first = it is called the Gospel
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As He says also in Hosea:
“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26“And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:
“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29And as Isaiah said before:
“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”
30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33As it is written:
“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
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Just as I thought you would do, you danced around the word "but" by frantically trying to salvage all abrogated portions of OT ordinances and rules. Circumcision was abrogated. Are you still holding onto that ordinance? Do you still practice Temple burnt offerings? You remind me of Peter's Judaizing phase when he came under severe chastising by Paul for doing so. That's what Judaizers deserve, to come under the chastisement of your favorite Apostle of all times Paul.
Nobody is saying to do away with all of the Law. That's your pathetic Strawman. The Law and Governments are God's way of protecting all law abiding citizens such as you and me.
If you would just devote as much time to being a Christian as the time you devote to understanding all the ways a slap can be interpreted, you would be well on your way towards Christian Sainthood.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
If God hasn't received Israel as His people, then how do you explain three thousand born again Jews on Pentecost and thousands more as the days passed?
There is no failure on the part of the people. It was the religious leaders that sought to kill Jesus, and they fell right into the plan of God for His Son. But these same religious leaders came to faith in Jesus as the years passed. Acts 6:7 records that a "great company" of priests came to faith. A "great company" sounds like a majority of 70 priests in the Sanhedrin. It could very well be two-thirds or even three-fourths of 70 became born-again. And this taking place puts a damper on Gentile belief that God judged Israel for killing their king. The majority of Jews lived in Gentile lands and didn't even know about Jesus. How can God judge them not knowing anything about what took place in Israel for three years during Jesus' ministry. It was a remnant that returned to rebuild their land thanks to Cyrus. But the majority of Jews remained in what was Assyria and in Babylon and in Gentile lands in-between. They knew nothing about Jesus. This was the reason why Jesus sent out the eleven disciples before He ascended and that was to herald the message from God to them that Messiah and King had come and left and will be back again, to let them know that God has kept His Promise, and the New Covenant era was upon them.
The Romans occupied Israel around 63 BC and, in that time, there were eventual pitched battles happening in AD 66 and AD 68 before the Jews were finally defeated. I don't see God's judgment upon Israel for the religious leaders assassinating Jesus. The fact that Jews were coming to their Lord and becoming born-again by thousands doesn't look like a judgment upon Israel for what happened to His Son.
And all these conversions to Israel's Messiah and King served them well for they were now able to obey every aspect of the Law of Moses completely and perfectly.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, [Saul], Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Acts 21:19–20.
Even Saul, after he was converted, continued to observe and obey the Law of Moses.
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:24.
And why not? They were deemed "Not Guilty!" by God and this was their justification. If thousands and thousands of Jews were becoming born-again and justified "Not Guilty!" by God the Father, then where does this teaching come from that Israel was under God's judgment for His Son. Does being declared "Not Guilty!" by God sound like judgment? No, it is not judgment but absolution, forgiveness, and restoration and fulfillment of the Jeremiah prophecy:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jer. 31:33.
Sounds like the Marriage Supper is still on!
Do you agree?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I didn't dance around it. Correct understanding refuted your erroneous interpretation.
Thousands and thousands of Jews became born-again, and after their conversion to Christ was now able to obey the Law of Moses correctly and perfectly.
If God hasn't received Israel as His people, then how do you explain three thousand born again Jews on Pentecost and thousands more as the days passed?
There is no failure on the part of the people. It was the religious leaders that sought to kill Jesus, and they fell right into the plan of God for His Son. But these same religious leaders came to faith in Jesus as the years passed. Acts 6:7 records that a "great company" of priests came to faith. A "great company" sounds like a majority of 70 priests in the Sanhedrin. It could very well be two-thirds or even three-fourths of 70 became born-again. And this taking place puts a damper on Gentile belief that God judged Israel for killing their king. The majority of Jews lived in Gentile lands and didn't even know about Jesus. How can God judge them not knowing anything about what took place in Israel for three years during Jesus' ministry. It was a remnant that returned to rebuild their land thanks to Cyrus. But the majority of Jews remained in what was Assyria and in Babylon and in Gentile lands in-between. They knew nothing about Jesus. This was the reason why Jesus sent out the eleven disciples before He ascended and that was to herald the message from God to them that Messiah and King had come and left and will be back again, to let them know that God has kept His Promise, and the New Covenant era was upon them.
The Romans occupied Israel around 63 BC and, in that time, there were eventual pitched battles happening in AD 66 and AD 68 before the Jews were finally defeated. I don't see God's judgment upon Israel for the religious leaders assassinating Jesus. The fact that Jews were coming to their Lord and becoming born-again by thousands doesn't look like a judgment upon Israel for what happened to His Son.
And all these conversions to Israel's Messiah and King served them well for they were now able to obey every aspect of the Law of Moses completely and perfectly.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, [Saul], Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Acts 21:19–20.
Even Saul, after he was converted, continued to observe and obey the Law of Moses.
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:24.
And why not? They were deemed "Not Guilty!" by God and this was their justification. If thousands and thousands of Jews were becoming born-again and justified "Not Guilty!" by God the Father, then where does this teaching come from that Israel was under God's judgment for His Son. Does being declared "Not Guilty!" by God sound like judgment? No, it is not judgment but absolution, forgiveness, and restoration and fulfillment of the Jeremiah prophecy:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jer. 31:33.
Sounds like the Marriage Supper is still on!
Do you agree?
I'm already a saint.
Read your bible and learn something.
I can see you've just passed through a "Gotcha" moment with my last reply.
Now, read above and learn something.
And just to let you know at the Marriage Supper Israel is there by covenant. Gentiles are there by invitation.
Matt. 22.
