When You See JERUSALEM Surrounded By Armies, Luke 21

[Selah]

It is apparent that the Lord's prophecy in the book of Luke centers around Jerusalem.

Luke 21:5-7 5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see--the days will come in which not [one] stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” 7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”

In Luke 21:7, the disciples asked Jesus two questions: #1 When shall these things be? and #2 What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

We find the answer to question 1 in verses 8-24, and the answer to question 2 in verses 25-28:

Luke 21:8-28 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am [He,]’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end [will] not [come] immediately.” 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you,] delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 “But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 “Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able tocontradict or resist. 16 “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death. 17 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 “But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 “By your patience possess your souls. 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 “men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

And here it is in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Mark 13:14 So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Selah

 

[TomL]

It is apparent that the Lord's prophecy in the book of Luke centers around Jerusalem.

Luke 21:5-7 5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see--the days will come in which not [one] stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” 7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”

In Luke 21:7, the disciples asked Jesus two questions: #1 When shall these things be? and #2 What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

We find the answer to question 1 in verses 8-24, and the answer to question 2 in verses 25-28:

Luke 21:8-28 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am [He,]’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end [will] not [come] immediately.” 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you,] delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 “But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 “Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able tocontradict or resist. 16 “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death. 17 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 “But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 “By your patience possess your souls. 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 “men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

And here it is in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Mark 13:14 So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

View attachment 1647 Selah

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

 

[Selah]

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Are you a preterist then, Tom?

 

[Quintus5]

I dont think he has to be a full preterist to be convinced that this happened in 70 AD. The early Christians left before the Roman destruction believing what Christ told them. Here are some sources:
The idea that early Christians fled to Pella before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is found in early church writings—not the Bible itself—but in historical sources from early Christian historians.


Here are primary sources:

“But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at last overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.”

Source: Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 3.5.3

Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 310–403 AD)​

He also mentions the flight to Pella.

“The Nazoraeans... acknowledged the resurrection of the dead and that all things were created by God, and they read the Law… Before the war, they left Jerusalem and went to live in Pella because they were warned to leave it, as it would be entirely destroyed.”

Epiphanius, Panarion29.7.7–8

Here is the timetable:

Christian Flight to Pella – Timetable​

66 AD — The First Jewish Revolt Begins

• Jewish rebels drive the Romans out of Jerusalem.
• The Roman procurator Florus is overthrown.
• Cestius Gallus marches to crush the revolt.

Late 66 AD — Roman Siege & Withdrawal

• Cestius Gallus surrounds Jerusalem.
• Christians recognize this as the sign Jesus spoke of:
  “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...” (Luke 21:20).
• Gallus unexpectedly withdraws his troops.
• This brief lull allows Christians to flee the city.
• 
  
• 66–67 AD — Christians Flee to Pella
• Believers leave Jerusalem, crossing the Jordan River.
• They settle in Pella, a city in the Decapolis region.
• According to Eusebius and Epiphanius, they left by divine revelation.
• 70 AD — Destruction of Jerusalem
• Titus returns with Roman legions.
• Jerusalem is besieged and the Temple is destroyed.
• Jesus’ prophecy is fulfilled:
  “Not one stone will be left upon another.” (Matthew 24:2)
• Christians had already escaped, avoiding the slaughter.

​

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[TomL]

Are you a preterist then, Tom?

Partial not full

 

[Selah]

Partial not full

oh, I see. thx, Tom.

 

[TomL]

oh, I see. thx, Tom.

Yes, There is a big difference between the two

 

[armylngst]

It is apparent that the Lord's prophecy in the book of Luke centers around Jerusalem.

Luke 21:5-7 5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see--the days will come in which not [one] stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” 7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”

In Luke 21:7, the disciples asked Jesus two questions: #1 When shall these things be? and #2 What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

We find the answer to question 1 in verses 8-24, and the answer to question 2 in verses 25-28:

Luke 21:8-28 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am [He,]’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end [will] not [come] immediately.” 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you,] delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 “But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 “Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able tocontradict or resist. 16 “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death. 17 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 “But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 “By your patience possess your souls. 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 “men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

And here it is in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Mark 13:14 So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

View attachment 1647 Selah

There are stark differences between Luke and Matthew, however. Notice how in Luke they are to look for the armies surrounding the city, and at that point they will know that the desolation of Jerusalem has come. That is the destruction Jesus has spoken of. In Matthew, it says when you see the desolation of abomination, flee because a great tribulation is coming. In Luke it talks about wars, rumors of wars, nation against nation, however it says that the persecution and tribulation of the church will come before this. In Matthew, it also speaks of wars, nation against nation, natural disasters, however it says that this comes before the persecution/tribulation of the church. It seems to be talking about two different events.

At the end of the tribulation of Jerusalem in Matthew, immediately after, Jesus returns and gathers up ALL the elect. In Luke, the event ends with the great diaspora, with all the Jews how survive being put to the sword, being scattered throughout the world. And then there is 1948, when the Jews start returning back to Israel which becomes a nation once again. Jesus also talks about Jerusalem being trampled upon by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. That is clearly seen throughout history, and the Gentiles still trample on Jerusalem today. Trump is one of the first world leaders to actually return a higher level of legitemacy to Jerusalem being the capital/heart of Israel by moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The UN is constantly, along with others, attacking Israel and Jersualem. Things have changed A LOT in the past few decades, and Israel is finding it easier to get away with things now then in the past. (Such as having one of Aaron's descendants on the temple mount doing ceremonies.)

I am considering Luke 21 to be talking specifically about AD 70, while Matthew is speaking of a similar desolation, but at a later time. The questions are a little different in Luke and in Matthew, with the questions in Luke targeted more towards asking about AD 70.
“Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”
When will what be? The destruction of Jersualem and the temple. What sign will there be for when the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple are about to take place.

In Matthew they ask: "3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Since Jesus did not return in 70AD, what the disciples are asking is in relation to His coming. (Term of royalty, as in coming into the kingdom. [millennial kingdom?] In Luke they asked for signs of Jerusalem and the temple about to be destroyed. In Matthew, written for the Jews, it was much more steeped in Old Testament, Jewish eschatology. The great tribulation that Jesus mentions here may be related to the days of Jacobs trouble in the Old Testament, and to Zechariah.