Isaiah 6 is YHWH the Son on the Throne

[civic]

We know from the N.T. that Christ is the One Lord, the Only Lord. We know that Christ is also identifies as the Holy One in the N.T. and our King all titles and descriptions of YHWH in the Isaiah passages.

John 12:41
These things Isaiah said, because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him

Isaiah 6:1-10
In the year of King, Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,

"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,,

The whole earth is full of His glory."

4 And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5 Then I said,

"Woe is me, for I am ruined!,

Because I am a man of unclean lips,

And I live among a people of unclean lips;,

For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."


One need only follow the pronouns and the verbs. Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH. There is only ONE time that Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH; its in Ish 6. John says that Isaiah saw "his" glory, the glory of Jesus. That Isaiah ALSO foretold the suffering and rejection of Christ is true but irrelevant. You are confusing what Isaiah foretold (Christ's suffering and rejection) with what he literally "saw" (the glory of YWHW).

The verb Isaiah used for "saw" in 6;1 is רָאָה ("ra'ah"). In the qal, it refers to the act of seeing in the literal sense, to see with the eyes (as opposed to, for example, מַחֲזֶה "machazeh", which is the act or event of an ecstatic "vision"). In referring to this event, John uses the Greek word εἶδον ("eidon") - also a verb referring to the act of seeing with the eyes in the natural sense.

We know that God the Father is invisible, "whom no man hath seen, nor can see" (1 Tim 6:16). He is transcendent and lives in unapproachable light (1 Tim 6:16). But the Son is "the image of the invisible God" (Col 1:15). Thus the one whom Isaiah "saw" in the literal sense with his eyes is the one whom he explicitly identified as "YHWH" - the same one whose glory he saw according to John (Jn 12:41). Jesus himself makes this clear at v.45 "And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me."

There is only ONE time when Isaiah saw someone he, speaking by the Holy Spirit identified as "YHWH", and John's spirit-inspired narrative of the interactions of Jesus with the Jews in the 11th and 12th chapter of his gospel, including their rejection of Christ, says that what Isaiah saw was HIS (ie Jesus') glory. This works in perfect harmony with John's whole purpose, given the FACT that John had previously identified the one who became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn 1:14) as "God" (Jn 1:1). Nowhere in the context of this narrative (ie Ch 12) does John speak of Christ's "glorification" in his rejection and crucifixion. To claim that this is what John was talking about in referring to what Isaiah SAW with his eyes ignores the grammar and the immediate context, including the clear and unmistakable words of Christ himself in that very context.

hope this helps !!

 

[TibiasDad]

We know from the N.T. that Christ is the One Lord, the Only Lord. We know that Christ is also identifies as the Holy One in the N.T. and our King all titles and descriptions of YHWH in the Isaiah passages.

John 12:41
These things Isaiah said, because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him

Isaiah 6:1-10
In the year of King, Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,

"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,,

The whole earth is full of His glory."

4 And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5 Then I said,

"Woe is me, for I am ruined!,

Because I am a man of unclean lips,

And I live among a people of unclean lips;,

For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."


One need only follow the pronouns and the verbs. Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH. There is only ONE time that Isaiah saw the glory of YHWH; its in Ish 6. John says that Isaiah saw "his" glory, the glory of Jesus. That Isaiah ALSO foretold the suffering and rejection of Christ is true but irrelevant. You are confusing what Isaiah foretold (Christ's suffering and rejection) with what he literally "saw" (the glory of YWHW).

The verb Isaiah used for "saw" in 6;1 is רָאָה ("ra'ah"). In the qal, it refers to the act of seeing in the literal sense, to see with the eyes (as opposed to, for example, מַחֲזֶה "machazeh", which is the act or event of an ecstatic "vision"). In referring to this event, John uses the Greek word εἶδον ("eidon") - also a verb referring to the act of seeing with the eyes in the natural sense.

We know that God the Father is invisible, "whom no man hath seen, nor can see" (1 Tim 6:16). He is transcendent and lives in unapproachable light (1 Tim 6:16). But the Son is "the image of the invisible God" (Col 1:15). Thus the one whom Isaiah "saw" in the literal sense with his eyes is the one whom he explicitly identified as "YHWH" - the same one whose glory he saw according to John (Jn 12:41). Jesus himself makes this clear at v.45 "And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me."

There is only ONE time when Isaiah saw someone he, speaking by the Holy Spirit identified as "YHWH", and John's spirit-inspired narrative of the interactions of Jesus with the Jews in the 11th and 12th chapter of his gospel, including their rejection of Christ, says that what Isaiah saw was HIS (ie Jesus') glory. This works in perfect harmony with John's whole purpose, given the FACT that John had previously identified the one who became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn 1:14) as "God" (Jn 1:1). Nowhere in the context of this narrative (ie Ch 12) does John speak of Christ's "glorification" in his rejection and crucifixion. To claim that this is what John was talking about in referring to what Isaiah SAW with his eyes ignores the grammar and the immediate context, including the clear and unmistakable words of Christ himself in that very context.

hope this helps !!

Question: How was the Lord seen before his physical incarnation? At this point, the Word of God has not been made flesh, and thus was still in his natural state of being, which was spirit, not a physical thing.

I do agree that Isaiah literally saw “the Lord”, but I think your argument is flawed in that it intimates a physical reality that the Son would not yet have had.

Doug

 

[civic]

Question: How was the Lord seen before his physical incarnation? At this point, the Word of God has not been made flesh, and thus was still in his natural state of being, which was spirit, not a physical thing.

I do agree that Isaiah literally saw “the Lord”, but I think your argument is flawed in that it intimates a physical reality that the Son would not yet have had.

Doug

I believe the Son is the One Person identified as YHWH who was seen and heard in the O.T. who walked with adam in the garden, was in Sodom and Gommorah, with Daniel in the Lions den and who also appeared as the angel of the Lord in the O.T. And below is why I believe this to be true since its the Father that no one has seen, yet they saw God/YHWH several times in the O.T.


John 5:37
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father


1 Timothy 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6:13-16
I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time — God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

1 John 4:12
12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

1 Timothy 6:15-16
which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Isaiah 43: 11- Yahweh said that He is our only Savior- Even I Am Yahweh and there is no other Savior besides Me. This verse is very clear as to its meaning. We see that Yahweh is the Name God bestowed on Jesus and it is Yahweh which is the Name that is above every name and it is Yahweh to which every knee will bow. There is no mistaking that Paul declares in his epistles that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus is our Lord Yahweh in the New Testament as well as our Savior. These were the specific names that were Gods alone in the Old Testament. Yahweh is the name given by God for Himself. In the OT YHWH and was considered so holy that a devout Jew would not pronounce it.

God revealed His name to Moses in Exodus 3:14 When God said, "I Am Who I AM." YHWH is only used to refer to the one true God. His name and glory were not to be given to another. Isaiah wrote:” Thus says the Lord (YHWH)I Am the First and I Am the Last and beside me there is no God. "I Am (YHWH) that is My name; and My Glory I will not give to another, neither My praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8) That is why the Jews picked up stones and accused Jesus of blasphemy when He claimed to be YHWH. Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men (Matt 25:31, John 5:27) Joel quotes Yahweh as saying, "For there I will sit to judge all surrounding nations" (Joel 3:12).

Jesus prayed, "Father, glorify Me with Thy own self with the Glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5) But here we read that YHWH said, "I will not give My Glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8). But we see in Scripture that God/Yahweh offers all His Glory to Jesus. Christ says, "I Am the first and the last" (Rev 1:17) the exact words used by YHWH in Isaiah 42:28. In John 8:58 where Jesus says:” Before Abraham was born, I Am." Jesus was either "guilty" as the Jews charged Him of blasphemy, or He is who He claimed to be(YHWH). He clearly claimed to be God. If He is only a good teacher or prophet then He would be a liar as the late CS Lewis once said on par with a poached egg, because He claimed equality with God and no created being has equality with God.

The Jews knew and understood His meaning and picked up stones to kill Him for blaspheming. (John 8:58, 10:31-33). We can clearly see the identity of the Almighty God of scripture and He is none other than Jesus who is YHWH(Almighty God) in the flesh. He appeared to men in the OT as the angel(messenger) of the Lord and now is permanently both YHWH and man. He is forever the Godman in the flesh. YHWH has come in the flesh and those who deny this scripture declares are the spirit of antichrist(1 John 4:1-4, 2 John 7).


John 1:18 says, "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God/Son who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared of explained Him." And then there is John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath sen the Father." The point being made is the fact that the Son of God is the visible manifestation of God (Hebrews 1:3) and the kicker verse if you wil is John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. YOU HAVE NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME, NOR SEEN HIS FORM." So Jesus here out His own mouth says you have neither heard the Fathers voice nor seen His form."

Jesus is the Lord 9 YHWH ) in Joel, Isaiah and Jeremiah. No ambiguity

Joel 2:27-32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Paul quotes Joel below and says it is Jesus who is the Lord(YHWH) whom all will call upon


Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


Isaiah 45:21-24
Is it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
22 " Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'


Now Paul quotes Isaiah about YHWH and declares it is Jesus(YHWH) whom all will bow before,

Philippians 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Isaiah 6:1-5
In the year of King, Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,
"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,,
The whole earth is full of His glory."
4 And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5 Then I said,
5"Woe is me, for I am ruined!,
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;,
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."

Below John says Isaiah saw His ( Jesus the Son's ) glory. This was the only time the prophet Isaiah saw the Lord ( YHWH )

John 12:41
These things Isaiah said, because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him


Jeremiah 17:10 the Lord says
"I the LORD search the heart, I test the mind. Even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings"

In Revelation 2:23 Jesus says
"I am He who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each one of you according to your works"

So if Jesus is not God ( YHWH ) why would he claim to do something in Revelation that Yahweh claimed in Jeremiah?

So is it Yahweh or Jesus who searches hearts and minds?

The only name that can possibly be above all names is the name of YHWH. This means that Jesus shares the personal name and authority of YHWH, making Him God Himself as no one can be equal to God except God alone.

hope this helps !!!

 

[TibiasDad]

Isaiah 43: 11- Yahweh said that He is our only Savior- Even I Am Yahweh and there is no other Savior besides Me. This verse is very clear as to its meaning. We see that Yahweh is the Name God bestowed on Jesus and it is Yahweh which is the Name that is above every name and it is Yahweh to which every knee will bow. There is no mistaking that Paul declares in his epistles that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus is our Lord Yahweh in the New Testament as well as our Savior. These were the specific names that were Gods alone in the Old Testament. Yahweh is the name given by God for Himself. In the OT YHWH and was considered so holy that a devout Jew would not pronounce it.

God revealed His name to Moses in Exodus 3:14 When God said, "I Am Who I AM." YHWH is only used to refer to the one true God. His name and glory were not to be given to another. Isaiah wrote:” Thus says the Lord (YHWH)I Am the First and I Am the Last and beside me there is no God. "I Am (YHWH) that is My name; and My Glory I will not give to another, neither My praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8) That is why the Jews picked up stones and accused Jesus of blasphemy when He claimed to be YHWH. Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men (Matt 25:31, John 5:27) Joel quotes Yahweh as saying, "For there I will sit to judge all surrounding nations" (Joel 3:12).

Jesus prayed, "Father, glorify Me with Thy own self with the Glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5) But here we read that YHWH said, "I will not give My Glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8). But we see in Scripture that God/Yahweh offers all His Glory to Jesus. Christ says, "I Am the first and the last" (Rev 1:17) the exact words used by YHWH in Isaiah 42:28. In John 8:58 where Jesus says:” Before Abraham was born, I Am." Jesus was either "guilty" as the Jews charged Him of blasphemy, or He is who He claimed to be(YHWH). He clearly claimed to be God. If He is only a good teacher or prophet then He would be a liar as the late CS Lewis once said on par with a poached egg, because He claimed equality with God and no created being has equality with God.

The Jews knew and understood His meaning and picked up stones to kill Him for blaspheming. (John 8:58, 10:31-33). We can clearly see the identity of the Almighty God of scripture and He is none other than Jesus who is YHWH(Almighty God) in the flesh. He appeared to men in the OT as the angel(messenger) of the Lord and now is permanently both YHWH and man. He is forever the Godman in the flesh. YHWH has come in the flesh and those who deny this scripture declares are the spirit of antichrist(1 John 4:1-4, 2 John 7).


John 1:18 says, "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God/Son who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared of explained Him." And then there is John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath sen the Father." The point being made is the fact that the Son of God is the visible manifestation of God (Hebrews 1:3) and the kicker verse if you wil is John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. YOU HAVE NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME, NOR SEEN HIS FORM." So Jesus here out His own mouth says you have neither heard the Fathers voice nor seen His form."

Jesus is the Lord 9 YHWH ) in Joel, Isaiah and Jeremiah. No ambiguity

Joel 2:27-32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the LORD has said,
Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Paul quotes Joel below and says it is Jesus who is the Lord(YHWH) whom all will call upon


Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


Isaiah 45:21-24
Is it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
22 " Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'


Now Paul quotes Isaiah about YHWH and declares it is Jesus(YHWH) whom all will bow before,

Philippians 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Isaiah 6:1-5
In the year of King, Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,
"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,,
The whole earth is full of His glory."
4 And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5 Then I said,
5"Woe is me, for I am ruined!,
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;,
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."

Below John says Isaiah saw His ( Jesus the Son's ) glory. This was the only time the prophet Isaiah saw the Lord ( YHWH )

John 12:41
These things Isaiah said, because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him


Jeremiah 17:10 the Lord says
"I the LORD search the heart, I test the mind. Even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings"

In Revelation 2:23 Jesus says
"I am He who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each one of you according to your works"

So if Jesus is not God ( YHWH ) why would he claim to do something in Revelation that Yahweh claimed in Jeremiah?

So is it Yahweh or Jesus who searches hearts and minds?

The only name that can possibly be above all names is the name of YHWH. This means that Jesus shares the personal name and authority of YHWH, making Him God Himself as no one can be equal to God except God alone.

hope this helps !!!

Point taken…

Doug