Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[Matthias]

I haven't conceded anything you are imagining it. I asked you where it is in the bible. I know what the bible teaches on the topic.

Then show us where you think it is taught in the Bible that Jesus is not a human person. Please notify @Bob Carabbio and @dizerner when you do.

 

[synergy]

Contradiction. Words are created.

Permit me to introduce you to the Word of God:

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

​

 

[Wrangler]

If I bother with "Theology":
My favorite flawed "physical demonstration" would be a thee dimensional "Cube",

This would be the "Modal" concept

The question is, where does the 3 model come from? Certainly not Scripture for there is no trinity verse in Scripture.

 

[civic]

The implication is that you hold that a man is not a person and that there is something that exists that is human but not a person. Spelling out your illogic.

P1. Jesus is a man.
P2. Jesus is human.
P3. Jesus is not a (human) person.
C. A man is not a person.

No in Orthodox Trinitarianism person and nature are not the same. I can see you have not engaged in this argument before Wrangler. “Nature” (Gk: ousia; Latin: essentia, substantia), then, referred to what an object is. A divine nature is what God is in his one, undivided essence, which we describe in terms of God’s attributes. A human nature is what constitutes humanity, namely, a body-soul composite with corresponding capacities, such as a will, mind, and emotions. In Christ, there is one “person” (Gk: hypostasis; Latin: persona), the Son, who is the subject of two “natures” that subsists in both natures and acts through them. The “person” is the “acting subject”; natures are not. Yet, what is true of each nature is true of the one person (known as “communication of attributes”)

If you would like to be educated on the topic of nature and person I recommend this article here :

The Incarnation and Two Natures of Christ

Incarnation is the supernatural act of the triune God, whereby the eternal, divine Son took into union with himself a complete human nature apart from sin.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[synergy]

Then show us where you think it is taught in the Bible that Jesus is not a human person. Please notify @Bob Carabbio and @dizerner when you do.

The OT Theophanies, John, Revelation, etc.. attests to the eternal Personhood of the Uncreated Word of God.

 

[civic]

The OT Theophanies, John, Revelation, etc.. attests to the Personhood of the Word of God.

Yes indeed a Divine Person just like the Father.

And we know from Jesus no man has seen the Father or heard His voice. So everywhere YHWH appeared and talked with men in the OT it was not the Father.

That statement alone by Jesus destroys unitarianism and affirms Trintarianism.

 

[Wrangler]

Permit me to introduce you to the Word of God:

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

​

Let me introduce you to basic reading comprehension. "OF" and "is" are not synonyms.

I do like how you completely divert from my post, which was that words are created.

And I know you desperately want to pretend Jesus's name is word of god when it is obviously a title and you are relying on a bad translation.

Revelation 19:13

New Living Translation

​

13 He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God.

 

[Matthias]

The OT Theophanies, John, Revelation, etc.. attests to the Personhood of the Word of God.

Aren’t @Bob Carabbio and @dizerner aware of this? If they are, and if this proves that Jesus is not a human person, then why do they say that Jesus is a human person?

 

[civic]

Let me introduce you to basic reading comprehension. "OF" and "is" are not synonyms.

I do like how you completely divert from my post, which was that words are created.

And I know you desperately want to pretend Jesus's name is word of god when it is obviously a title and you are relying on a bad translation.

Revelation 19:13​

​

New Living Translation​

​

​

13 He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God.

sorry cherry picking a terrible bible translation tells us how weak your argument really is lol.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3686: ὄνομα

ὄνομα, ὀνόματος, τό (ΝΟΜ (others ΓΝΟ; see Vanicek, p. 1239), cf. Latinnomen (English name), with the prefixed omicron ὀ (but see Curtius, § 446)), the Sept. for שֵׁם (from Homer down), the name by which a person or a thing is called, and distinguished from others;

how about the literal word for word translations


English Standard Version
He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.

Berean Standard Bible
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.

Berean Literal Bible
and having been clothed with a garment having been dipped in blood. And His name is called The Word of God.

King James Bible
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

New King James Version
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

New American Standard Bible
He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

 

[synergy]

sorry cherry picking a terrible bible translation tells us how weak your argument really is lol.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 3686: ὄνομα

ὄνομα, ὀνόματος, τό (ΝΟΜ (others ΓΝΟ; see Vanicek, p. 1239), cf. Latinnomen (English name), with the prefixed omicron ὀ (but see Curtius, § 446)), the Sept. for שֵׁם (from Homer down), the name by which a person or a thing is called, and distinguished from others;

how about the literal word for word translations


English Standard Version
He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.

Berean Standard Bible
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.

Berean Literal Bible
and having been clothed with a garment having been dipped in blood. And His name is called The Word of God.

King James Bible
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

New King James Version
He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

New American Standard Bible
He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

How can anyone say that the Word of God Person mentioned in Rev 19 is just a spoken word!?! Unitarianism has totally warped their followers' sense of reality.

 

[Matthias]

Don’t fear the anathemas of historical orthodox trinitarianism, readers. They come from the Church, not from the Bible.

It’s only saber-rattling by those who have gone beyond what is written in scripture. It’s attempted intimidation of the weak-minded and the ignorant.

 

[civic]

I cannot believe some of the weakest arguments I have read in years as of late.

How can anyone say that the Word of God Person mentioned in Rev 19 is just a spoken word!?! Unitarianism has totally warped their followers' sense of reality.

 

[synergy]

Don’t fear the anathemas of historical orthodox trinitarianism, readers. They come from the Church, not from the Bible.

It’s only saber-rattling by those who have gone beyond what is written in scripture. It’s attempted intimidation of the weak-minded.

The ones who follow the Bible know that the
belief in the Trinity is built on solid ground.

 

[synergy]

I cannot believe some of the weakest arguments I have read in years as of late.

Like Jedd Clampett used to say, "Pityful, Pityful".

 

[Matthias]

The ones who follow the Bible know that the
belief in the Trinity is built on solid ground.

The ones who follow the Bible are the ones who follow the Messiah. His deity isn’t the Trinity. He doesn’t anathematize those who reject the Trinity.

The solid ground is the Jewish doctrine and dogma of Jesus, which Gregory of Nyssa boasts is destroyed by trinitarianism.

 

[synergy]

The ones who follow the Bible are the ones who follow the Messiah. His deity isn’t the Trinity. He doesn’t anathematize those who reject the Trinity.

Jesus' very name "Christ" screams Messiah in Greek. Tell us something we don't know...

The solid ground is the Jewish doctrine and dogma of Jesus, which Gregory of Nyssa boasts is destroyed by trinitarianism.

Gregory, being an excellent student of the Bible, was totally right about Pharisee doctrine. Which side would you have taken if you had heard Jesus declaring that He is the Great "I Am" of the OT who existed before Abraham existed?

 

[Matthias]

Jesus' very name "Christ" screams Messiah in Greek.

Messiah and Christ are equivalent titles.

Tell us something we don't know...

You know Jesus didn’t anathematize those who don’t believe in the Trinity. You also know that his own God isn’t the Trinity.

I’ve already told you many things that you don’t know. I’ll tell you more.

SHURF. What does the acronym mean? You said you will tell us what it means. Will you do it today?

Gregory, being an excellent student of the Bible, was totally right about Pharisee doctrine.

Gregory was talking about Jewish doctrine and dogma. Jesus is a Jew. His doctrine and dogma is Jewish.

Which side would you have taken if you had heard Jesus declaring that He is the Great "I Am" of the OT who existed before Abraham existed?

I’m always on the side of the Jesus.

Where does Jesus anathematize those who believe he is a human person?

 

[Diserner]

TISBATBARTSATAD.

Ask me what it means if you want to know.

 

[synergy]

Messiah and Christ are equivalent titles.

Again, tell us something we don't know.

You know Jesus didn’t anathematize those who don’t believe in the Trinity. You also know that his own God isn’t the Trinity.

He did have stern words for the unitarian Pharisees who did not believe that He was the Great "I Am" of the OT.

I’ve already told you many things that you don’t know. I’ll tell you more.
SHURF. What does the acronym mean? You said you will tell us what it means. Will you do it today?

You said you'll tell me more. Where is that more?

Gregory was talking about Jewish doctrine and dogma. Jesus is a Jew. His doctrine and dogma is Jewish.

Gregory was talking about unitarian Pharisaic beliefs and doctrines that declare that Jesus is not the "I Am" of the OT.

I’m always on the side of the Jesus.

Excellent! Welcome to the anti-Pharisaic anti-unitarian side that does believe Jesus when He said that He is the "I Am" of the OT.

Where does Jesus anathematize those who believe he is a human person?

For one thing, He didn't take kindly to the stoning that the unitarian Pharisees tried to inflict on Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

SHURF. What does the acronym mean? You said you will tell us what it means. Will you do it today?

It doesn’t look like he will.