Wrangler
Well-known member
Appeal to Strawman. I never said that.
The explanation is simple. Not every use of the word "word" in Scripture refers to the title of the son, "Word of God."
Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?
- Thread starter Matthias
- Start date
The explanation is simple. Not every use of the word "word" in Scripture refers to the title of the son, "Word of God."
Wrangler
Well-known member
Edited
Definition is not a weak argument. It is the exact opposite of a weak argument. You pontificating, calling a strong argument weak, does not make it so.
Also, sometimes all there is is a weak argument. It still has to be refuted OR it must be accepted by default. For instance, many criminal cases are determined based on weak, circumstantial evidence.
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Thread is reopened. If the personal attacks continue the thread will be shut down. Let’s try and get along.
The Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity
1. God is one in being and three persons
We Christians believe that God is one because the Bible teaches this. To Moses, first of all, God discloses his name to be Yahweh (Exod 3:14), and he insists that he alone is God and he alone is to be worshipped (Exod 20:2–6; cf. Isa 42:8; 44:6; Zech 14:9). The belief that God is one is underlined in the so-called Shema, the Jewish confession that says, “The Lord our God, Yahweh, is one: (Deut 6:5). However, it is made plain in the Old Testament that Yahweh is not “one” in any abstract, monistic sense. The word translated into English “one” in the Shema is the Hebrew word echad. It can be used to speak of the unity of husband and wife. In the New Testament, the belief that God is one continues to be affirmed (Mark 12:29; Rom 3:30; 1 Cor 8:4–6; Eph 4:6; 1 Tim 2:5; Jas 2:19).
But we Christians also believe that God is three “persons,” because he reveals himself as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The word “person” has its limitations because the divine three are more profoundly “one” than any human union, and because this word refers primarily to creatures and only analogically or metaphorically to the divine three. Nevertheless, the divine three are rightly called “persons” because they are revealed as persons: as a Father and a Son who love, relate, speak, and act, and as a Spirit who does likewise. Indeed, in the New Testament, the three divine persons are so clearly depicted as persons that, if it were not for the revelation that God is one, we Christians would be tritheists.
In the New Testament, it is not only the Father who is revealed as God, but also the Son and the Spirit. Jesus is also called God many times (John 1:1; 20:28; Acts 20:28; Rom 9:5; Phil 2:6; Col 2:9; 1 Tim 3:15–16; 2 Thess 1:12; Titus 2:13; 2 Pet 1:1; Heb 1:8; 1 John 5:20). And, as such, he is confessed more than two hundred times as “the Lord,” Yahweh’s own name. He is also described as doing the things that only God can do: still a storm (Matt 8:23–27), raise the dead (Mark 5:35–43; Luke 7:11–17; John 11:1–43), heal the physically sick and maimed (Mark 1:40–45; 2:1–11; 3:1–6), forgive sins (Mark 2:1–11; Luke 7:48), and offer salvation (Matt 1:21; 18:11; Luke 19:19; John 12:47). What is more, the attributes of God are ascribed to him. He is said to be self-existent (John 5:26), eternal (John 1:1; 3:13; Phil 2:5–7; 2 Cor 8:9), immutable (Heb 13:8), holy (Luke 1:35; 4:34; John 10:36; Acts 3:14; Heb 7:26), omniscient (Matt 11:25–27; John 2:24–25; 16:30; 21:17; Col 2:3; Heb 4:13), omnipotent (Heb 1:3), and righteous (Acts 3:14; 7:52; 1 Cor 1:30; Jas 5:6).
This one @Matthias?
I know a bit re Orthodox Christianity and are they not similar with RCC? Yet even there is -isms and schisms-
Also noticed you make a strong stance for what you believe is correct despite the strong "thunder claps" from your fellow brothers-online Forums can be a bit harsh and debilitating as everyone seems to know the end from the beginning re the D'varim and knowledge is ever increasing as per Daniel.
The "answer is just a Google away" and many that say they don't use secondary sources ARE the ones using these very sources.
Let me know if I am on the right track.
Johann.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
You're confusing the human name "Yeshua/Joshua/Jesus" with His Divine name and title "Messiah/Christ."
The God-man (Gen. 3:15.)
"Christ" derives from the Greek "Christos" which comes from the Hebrew "Messias" which means as per Strong's "anointed."
The "anointed" Man.
Yes
Yes
Yes
No. He is unique.
God has no mother. Mary is the mother of the man Jesus.
Bob Stanley is in grave error.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Paranthetic:
In Jerusalem, in Jesus' day, "Unitarian" focused on God the Father, while the present version appears to center more on Jesus as the "ONE".
Not too long ago, what we call "Unitarians" today, used to just be known as "Oneness" theologians. ONE of the early promoters of "Oneness" among Pentecostals, was Robert T. McAlister who in 1913, Publicly OBJECTED to Baptism in the name of the "Father", the "SON", and the "Holy Spirit", INSISTING that baptism in the name of JESUS ONLY was the REAL Biblical ordinance.
The Assembies of God, in 1916, made OFFICIAL their "trinitarian" orientation, and McAlister's folks promptly exited, to form their OWN denominations (primarily the UPCI FORMED IN 1945).
Their emphasis soteriologically focuses on TONGUES, because if you don't SPEAK IN TONGUES, you HAVEN'T got the Holy Spirit, and you're NOT a Christian. NO other significant Pentecostal denomination connects "tongues" with Salvation.
When I was Younger "Unitarian" always referred to the "Unitarian Universalist" Denomination / Religious system, which "had no creeds" and saw no need for 'em, in their "Search for spiritual truth", and social "unity".
Wrangler
Well-known member
Wrangler
Well-known member
So too since Jesus day. 1 COR 8:6 For us, there is one God the Father. It’s so simple, even a trinitarian can understand it.
Behold
Well-known member
Born of a virgin, as a Human on earth.
His Father is God. He was created by the Holy Spirit inside the womb of a virgin.... so, He's THE Son of God and that makes Him, a God-Man
Y
Matthias
Well-known member
That’s what I recall your position being from our previous conversations.
Matthias
Well-known member
Bob Stanley was an advocate for trinitarIan orthodoxy.
Behold
Well-known member
Thomas said.....(to Jesus).... "My LORD....and my GOD"...
And Jesus didn't correct Thomas......as why would GOD correct the Truth?
Behold
Well-known member
And then Jesus said...."im from Above, and you are from Below" = thats John 1 "The WORD was God".
Thats John 1:10 that says that Jesus made the World.
Thats 1 Timothy 3:16.... "God was manifested in the Flesh". = JESUS the virgin born man.
See, even a 4 yr old can read all that, and understand the truth..
They can read... "i and my Father are ONE"
They get it.
Jesus said........"If you've SEEN ME.....you've SEEN the Father".
They get it.
Any 4 yr old can understand.
Really.
Matthias
Well-known member
Thomas said “My kyrios / adoni and my theos / elohim.”
Jesus didn’t correct Thomas because what Thomas said is correct. The Messiah would have corrected Thomas if what he said wasn’t the truth.
In reply, T'oma said to Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, Adoni and Elohai! [TEHILLIM 35:23]
My Lord and my God. First testimony to the Deity of the risen Lord. Possibly Thomas was using the words of Psa_86:15, which in the Septuagint read Kurie ho Theos, and claiming forgiveness for his unbelief on the ground of Exo_34:6, to which this verse of the Psalm refers.
Behold
Well-known member
Yes.
Here is a thought.
First....Baby Jesus, is in the manger.
and next....
Baby Jesus is now a little older, and He's barefoot. He takes His first baby step....standing up, holding unto Mary's hand.
Jesus's baby Feet, are now on the very earth that Jesus PRE- incarnate Created...
Read John 1:10..............then read......Colossians 1:16
What a Savior.
Matthias
Well-known member
So then you believe some aspects of what historical orthodox trinitarianism teaches and reject other aspects of what aspects of what historical orthodox trinitarianism teaches.
When examined closely, the teaching that Jesus is a human person denies all of what historical orthodox trinitarianism teaches.
I’m familiar with scripture. I understand Matthew 28:19 to be triadic, not trinitarian.
Matthias
Well-known member
You quoted the non-deity title - adoni - which is, in fact, the title given to the unnamed (at that time) human person whom his God spoke to prophetically in Psalm 110:1. (In the NT we are told that Jesus of Nazareth is the human person whom God was addressing.)
My lord and my God, is what Thomas said.
Hashem said unto Adoni [i.e., Moshiach Adoneinu; Malachi 3:1], Sit thou at My right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for thy feet
OJB
Good you took notice-from the OJB-however-
לְ·דָוִ֗ד le·da·Vid, of David מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר miz·Mor A Psalm נְאֻ֤ם ne·'Um said יְהוָ֨ה ׀ A·do·Nai The LORD לַֽ·אדֹנִ֗·י la·do·Ni, unto my Lord שֵׁ֥ב shev Sit לִֽ·ימִינִ֑·י li·mi·Ni; thou at my right hand עַד־ 'ad- Until אָשִׁ֥ית 'a·Shit until I make אֹ֝יְבֶ֗י·ךָ 'o·ye·Vei·cha, thine enemies הֲדֹ֣ם ha·Dom stool לְ·רַגְלֶֽי·ךָ׃ le·rag·Lei·cha. your feet
Prep-l+N-msc+1cs (BSB Morphology)
Preposition-l
+ Noun - masculine singular construct
+ first person common singular
Lemma: אָדוֹן
Word: לַֽאדֹנִ֗י
Transliteration: la·ḏō·nî
English: to my Lord,
H113 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
N-proper-ms (BSB Morphology)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Lemma: יְהוָה
Word: יְהוָ֨ה׀
Transliteration: Yah·weh
English: YHWH
H3068 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
H3068 יְהוָה Yhvah (yeh-vaw') n/p.
יְהוָֹה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')
יְהוֹ Yhow (yeh-ho') [as a prefix]
1. (meaning) the self-Existent or Eternal, the I AM.
2. (person) Yahweh (Yehvah), Jewish national name of God.
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
ψαλμός A psalm τω [to] Δαυίδ David.
1 είπεν [3 said ο 1 The κύριος 2 LORD] τω to κυρίω μου my Lord, κάθου Sit down εκ at δεξιών μου my right [hand] έως until αν whenever θω I should make τους εχθρούς σου your enemies υποπόδιον a footstool των ποδών σου for your feet
Sit at My Right Hand
Psa 110:1 [A Psalm of David.] A declaration of YAHWEH to my Adonai: Sit at My right hand, until I place Your enemies as Your footstool.
לדוד מזמור נאם יהוה לאדני שׁב לימיני עד־אשׁית איביך הדם לרגליך
Not trying to be "smart" since I ain't.
J.
