Matthias
Well-known member
They know Church history. So do I. That’s why you’re argument isn’t persuasive.
Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?
- Thread starter Matthias
- Start date
They know Church history. So do I. That’s why you’re argument isn’t persuasive.
civic
Well-known member
I know the bible which trumps the teaching of uninspired and sinful men. You keep the traditions of man as your authority and I will stick with Jesus and the Apostles as my Authority.
civic
Well-known member
Here are some references, allusions to the Plurality of God in the O.T.
Gen 1:26
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Gen 3:22
Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;
Gen 11:7
Come, let Us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
Gen 19:24
Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
Isa 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?
Isa 48:16
"Come near to Me, listen to this:
From the first I have not spoken in secret,
From the time it took place, I was there.
And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit."
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To bring good news to the afflicted;
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to captives
And freedom to prisoners;
Ps 110:1
The Lord says to my Lord:
"Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."
Zech 12:10
"And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him, like the bitter weeping over a first-born.
hope this helps !!!
Gen 1:26
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Gen 3:22
Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;
Gen 11:7
Come, let Us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
Gen 19:24
Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
Isa 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?
Isa 48:16
"Come near to Me, listen to this:
From the first I have not spoken in secret,
From the time it took place, I was there.
And now the Lord God has sent Me, and His Spirit."
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To bring good news to the afflicted;
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to captives
And freedom to prisoners;
Ps 110:1
The Lord says to my Lord:
"Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."
Zech 12:10
"And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him, like the bitter weeping over a first-born.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
The word "person" is used to describe the three of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three Persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.
What is so hard to understand about God being Triune? The Father is not the the Son. The Son is not the the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. God is a Tri-Unity of 3 Persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is not three gods nor is the Trinity three beings. We call them "Persons" because each one of Them have a will, speak, teach, love, receive praise, prayer, share the same Glory, etc. These are all characteristics of person-hood. They are of one substance, nature, essence or Being. You cannot have the Father without the Son, the Son without the Father, The Son without the Holy Spirit or you would not have the God according to Scripture, you would have a false god or what is known as an idol.
The god of the unitarians cannot know or experience love as a solitary person. That is impossible. It is an oxymoron. The only viable answer to Gods love and that He is love is for God to be Triune in nature which would explain why and how God is love. A god who is only a solitary person cannot know what love is as there is no one else experience and to know love. That god is void of love by nature.
God is a personal, relational being by His very essence or nature. There are roles within the Godhead that have to do with the tri-personal nature of His being. The Father sends the Son, The Son submits to the Father. The Holy Spirit speaks of and honors the Father and the Son. Jesus said I and the Father are one. We clearly see the relationship of the Triune Godhead in the 14th-16th chapters of John.
Lets discuss
hope this helps,
What is so hard to understand about God being Triune? The Father is not the the Son. The Son is not the the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. God is a Tri-Unity of 3 Persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is not three gods nor is the Trinity three beings. We call them "Persons" because each one of Them have a will, speak, teach, love, receive praise, prayer, share the same Glory, etc. These are all characteristics of person-hood. They are of one substance, nature, essence or Being. You cannot have the Father without the Son, the Son without the Father, The Son without the Holy Spirit or you would not have the God according to Scripture, you would have a false god or what is known as an idol.
The god of the unitarians cannot know or experience love as a solitary person. That is impossible. It is an oxymoron. The only viable answer to Gods love and that He is love is for God to be Triune in nature which would explain why and how God is love. A god who is only a solitary person cannot know what love is as there is no one else experience and to know love. That god is void of love by nature.
God is a personal, relational being by His very essence or nature. There are roles within the Godhead that have to do with the tri-personal nature of His being. The Father sends the Son, The Son submits to the Father. The Holy Spirit speaks of and honors the Father and the Son. Jesus said I and the Father are one. We clearly see the relationship of the Triune Godhead in the 14th-16th chapters of John.
Lets discuss
hope this helps,
Matthias
Well-known member
Historical orthodox trinitarianism -> “Jesus is not a human person.”
“I believe Jesus is a human person.” - anonymous
“You are not a trinitarian, anonymous. ” -> says historical orthodox trinitarianism.
I invite and encourage all of my readers to reject historical orthodox trinitarianism.
“I believe Jesus is a human person.” - anonymous
“You are not a trinitarian, anonymous. ” -> says historical orthodox trinitarianism.
I invite and encourage all of my readers to reject historical orthodox trinitarianism.
civic
Well-known member
lol ya think
Matthias
Well-known member
I know I am. I’m grounded in historical orthodox trinitarianism. I’m grounded in Church history. I’m grounded in scripture.
I also know that it helps my cause when trinitarians say that it’s not a salvation issue. The more frequently they say it, the more insistent they are about it, the more it pulls the rug out from under the assertions made by historical orthodox trinitarianism.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yet again......another person trying to define all of "trinitarianism" that doesn't actually know the doctrine.
I suppose you're going to raise yourself from the dead one day? I don't believe it. After all, you're human.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Did you notice how Jesus said that HE.... is going to raise the death in the last day. HE....
Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You know the word "Trinity". You might know how to google. You obviously have never really believed the doctrine of the Trinity.
Matthias
Well-known member
The trinitarian author of the article linked in the OP wants to draw people to historical orthodox trinitarianism. I want to draw people away from historical orthodox trinitarianism.
The information the author provides in his article is able to work for him but it is also able to work against him.
The information the author provides in his article is able to work for him but it is also able to work against him.
Matthias
Well-known member
You’re bearing false witness against me.
Matthias
Well-known member
I was raised in historical orthodox trinitarianism. I was educated in historical orthodox trinitarianism. I believed historical orthodox trinitarianism. I taught historical orthodox trinitarianism.
You don’t actually know Jewish monotheism. I do.
Now why don’t you address your comment to the trinitarians who have said in this thread that they believe that Jesus is a human person? If it’s the winner that you think it is, then you might be able to persuade them to change their minds.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
How is that? You're making rather simple mistakes in dealing with the doctrine. Why should I believe your claim. You're bearing false witness about your experience.
Matthias
Well-known member
You’ve lied about me.
The topic of this thread is the trinitarian teaching that Jesus is not a human person.
You’ve said that I don’t know the doctrine. I’ve shown you that I do. I went above and beyond that by telling you about my background in historical orthodox trinitarianism. You still persist in your false witness against me.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I've debate Jewish monotheism for a very long time. So go ahead test me somewhere else.
Why are you ignoring what I wrote earlier? I know why. You don't have an answer. I believe John 6:39-40. Do you? I don't believe you actually do.
It is my experience that if you ever get a Jewish monotheist in a detailed debate, they will ultimately deny the veracity of the NT. It has happened to me many times. They will just pretend they believe the NT until you mention verses such as John 6:39-40.
So go ahead. Surprise me. If you do, I will say that you did.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yeah. I believe everyone I've ever meet on a Christian forum..........
Matthias
Well-known member
You’re intentionally bearing false witness against me.
The trinitarian author of the article linked in the OP is teaching historical orthodox trinitarianism. I know it. @civic knows it. I thought you knew it.
I was raised in it. I was educated in it. I believed it. I taught it. I now reject it.
If you can prove that any of that isn’t true then you’re witness against me would be true. Until you can - and you’ll never be able to, because it’s the truth - you’re bearing false witness against me.
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