Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[APAK]

Col 1:19, John 1:14, 1 Tim 3:16

Yes, these 3 verses are in alignment with Col 2:9 that the Father God, his divine word and spirit indwelt in the Son, period. Although you may think there is trinity written all over them and you would be very mistaken indeed. You cannot prove or even show anything beyond what you have been taught, the Trinity in everything scripture, and it does not mesh with scripture at all.

Why not add these scripture into same the list? They are of the same thought with Col 2:9, John 1:14, 1 Tim 3:16

(Col 2:9) God lives fully in Christ.(CEV)

(Col 1:19) God himself was pleased to live fully in his Son.

(Joh 14:10) Don't you believe that I am one with the Father and that the Father is one with me? What I say isn't said on my own. The Father who lives in me does these things. (CEV)

(Joh 14:11) Have faith in me when I say that the Father is one with me and that I am one with the Father. Or else have faith in me simply because of the things I do.(CEV)

(John 17:21) that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. (BSB)

(John 10:30) I and the Father are one
John 10:38) But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father."

John 14:9-11
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


As you can see even from this selected scripture, that Jesus is still the Son of God and the Messiah and never made it as God, his Father.

 

[Matthias]

Congrats @Matthias for the longest thread on the forum.

I was working in the Okefenokee Swamp in Ware County, Georgia one day and the County Manager told me about the highest point in the county. It was a landfill. He told me that for $1.00 he would name it after me. Then he winked and said for $2.00 he wouldn’t.

 

[APAK]

John 1:1:3
Phil 2:6-9
Col 1:15-20
Heb 1:10-12
Isa 9:6-7


Doug

Now explain each one/line and demonstrate how this shows that Jesus pre-existed. I know you cannot, so don't fool yourself into thinking you can.

If this make any sense to you, if you really were well versed in this scripture you would not dare to list them as proof of Christ's pre-existence. It would be too embarrassing.

It's easy to dish out verses and another to understand them, and in context.

I can, on the other hand, demonstrate adequately that each line on your list does not speak to any pre-existence of the Son of God.

Anyway I challenge you to try....

PS nothing personal, although your list is some of the typical verses tossed out by the ignorant who do not know or care to know scripture. They just want to believe in their man-made model of worship at all costs and these seem to do it for them.

 

[Diserner]

I was working in the Okefenokee Swamp in Ware County, Georgia one day and the County Manager told me about the highest point in the county. It was a landfill. He told me that for $1.00 he would name it after me. Then he winked and said for $2.00 he wouldn’t.

I dub this thread:

Mount Matthias.

 

[synergy]

Yes, these 3 verses are in alignment with Col 2:9 that the Father God, his divine word and spirit indwelt in the Son, period. Although you may think there is trinity written all over them and you would be very mistaken indeed. You cannot prove or even show anything beyond what you have been taught, the Trinity in everything scripture, and it does not mesh with scripture at all.

Why not add these scripture into same the list? They are of the same thought with Col 2:9, John 1:14, 1 Tim 3:16

(Col 2:9) God lives fully in Christ.(CEV)

(Col 1:19) God himself was pleased to live fully in his Son.

(Joh 14:10) Don't you believe that I am one with the Father and that the Father is one with me? What I say isn't said on my own. The Father who lives in me does these things. (CEV)

(Joh 14:11) Have faith in me when I say that the Father is one with me and that I am one with the Father. Or else have faith in me simply because of the things I do.(CEV)

(John 17:21) that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. (BSB)

(John 10:30) I and the Father are one
John 10:38) But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father."

John 14:9-11
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


As you can see even from this selected scripture, that Jesus is still the Son of God and the Messiah and never made it as God, his Father.

How does "I am in the Father" fit into your unitarian beliefs/creed?

Also, I take exception to the way the CEV translates the Col verses you cited.

 

[Matthias]

“It may sound odd (or even blasphemous) to say that Jesus Christ is not a human person, but this is precisely true. … In the case of the Incarnation a ‘personless‘ human nature was added to the divine person of Jesus Christ such that he now has a human nature as well.

Thus, it is true to say that Jesus Christ is a human being (because he is a person with a human nature) but it is false to say he is a human person (because his human nature did not generate a new person).

Why Jesus Christ is Not a Human Person

It may sound odd (or even blasphemous) to say that Jesus Christ is not a human person, but this is precisely true. The problem is that this is a very metaphysically precise statement and most peopl…

douglasbeaumont.com

 

[Matthias]

“… there is no human person named ‘Jesus of Nazareth.’”

Is Worship of Jesus Idolatry?

This is the weekly Q & A blog post by our Research Professor in Philosophy, Dr. William Lane Craig. Question Hello Dr. Craig, First, I want to thank you for all that you have done for the cause of Christ. You have been a powerful witness for the faith....

www.biola.edu

 

[synergy]

“It may sound odd (or even blasphemous) to say that Jesus Christ is not a human person, but this is precisely true. … In the case of the Incarnation a ‘personless‘ human nature was added to the divine person of Jesus Christ such that he now has a human nature as well.

Thus, it is true to say that Jesus Christ is a human being (because he is a person with a human nature) but it is false to say he is a human person (because his human nature did not generate a new person).

Why Jesus Christ is Not a Human Person

It may sound odd (or even blasphemous) to say that Jesus Christ is not a human person, but this is precisely true. The problem is that this is a very metaphysically precise statement and most peopl…

douglasbeaumont.com

So, do you believe that Jesus is both a God Person and a human being, possessing both God nature and transfigured human nature?

 

[civic]

“… there is no human person named ‘Jesus of Nazareth.’”

Is Worship of Jesus Idolatry?

This is the weekly Q & A blog post by our Research Professor in Philosophy, Dr. William Lane Craig. Question Hello Dr. Craig, First, I want to thank you for all that you have done for the cause of Christ. You have been a powerful witness for the faith....

www.biola.edu

There is a man(anthropos) Jesus of Nazareth who is fully human and fully God. I'm a Biblicist.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

All humans born of woman are persons
All persons born of woman are human
Not all persons that are human are human persons.
Jesus Christ born of a virgin is a Divine Person.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Matthias]

“Here, then, is the grace of Christian prayer: Christ is not far away, but is always in a relationship with us. There is no aspect of his divine-human person that cannot become and happiness for us. Every moment of Jesus’ earthly life, through the grace of prayer, can become immediate to us, thank to the Holy Spirit, the guide.“

Is Jesus Christ a "Divine-Human Person"? A new Heresy from Antipope Francis

novusordowatch.org

 

[APAK]

I dub this thread:

Mount Matthias.

And this address is now: Mount Matthias, Landfill #7, Ware County, Georgia

 

[Diserner]

Clearly some Trinitarians have gotten lost in the weeds of complexity.

There is no abstract human nature with no person, like a zombie.

A human nature includes personhood as part of its definition.

 

[civic]

Clearly some Trinitarians have got lost in the weeds of complexity.

There is no abstract human nature with no person, like a zombie.

A human nature includes personhood as part of its definition.

So you deny all the Creeds of Christendom correct ?

 

[Diserner]

So you deny all the Creeds of Christendom correct ?

I don't disrespect the church's efforts to codify their theology, but there is no reason to consider them inspired.

Most creeds I would probably find some fault with.

 

[civic]

I don't disrespect the church's efforts to codify their theology, but there is no reason to consider them inspired.

Most creeds I would probably find some fault with.

Agreed they are in subjection as a secondary source to the inspired scriptures.

 

[APAK]

How does "I am in the Father" fit into your unitarian beliefs/creed?

Also, I take exception to the way the CEV translates the Col verses you cited.

Well first off, this 'I am in the Father' is not a Unitarian view at all, and there is definitely no creed implied or entertained by me in the least. You might be familiar with that type of thinking, without any sarcasm intended.

It is a scriptural view that is important to a saved person, and not a label representing a particular organization. This doctrine I present on this should be at the center and understanding of all believers. This scripture and some others I mentioned in my previous post, they are important to one who is saved or being saved in Christ, in his spirit, today.

I cannot tell you what to believe, although this scripture you present simply means that the Father God, via his Holy spirit came to dwell inside the spirit of his human Son and thus, he, also shared in the Father's divine word and spirit with power and authority. And not just whilst he was living on earth after his baptism, especially today in the heavenly realm. Nothing has changed in this Father and Son relationship, besides the expanded authority of the Son, and our relationship as a believer with them.

Now the human being saved today or tomorrow knows that the Son's spirit is within them provided by our Father who alone is God, who alone is the so-called godhead that dwells in Christ. And because of this strong and fused relationship, we have access to the Father through the spirit of Christ that dwells within us. We are in both of them as Jesus prayed for it to happen prior to his death on the Cross.

After explaining this relationship of the Father and Son and the believer, I do not see why you can still take any exception the the way the CEV translated the two verses and others.

It was the Father God, his entire divine being of word and spirit that resided in his Son. This later addition of the 1300s replaced divinity and divine being in several texts with this so-called godhead as a deliberate trinitary bias, a deceptive distraction to somehow infer some trinity feature in these text(s). If should not fool anyone however in its true meaning and intent as I clearly illustrated to you here.

 

[Behold]

Now the human being saved today or tomorrow knows that the Son's spirit is within them provided by our Father who alone is God,

"God is A Spirit", and you just wrote "The Son's Spirit"., and you need to capitalize "Son's Spirit".

Be respectful of Christ, The Holy Spirit.

So that is true. as "Christ is THAT Spirit"........

"I and my Father are ONE".... = Holy Spirit.

"He that hath not the Spirit of GOD, (God is A Spirit), is none of God's", and "Christ IN YOU the hope of Glory" is "Christ is THAT Spirit".

See it yet, @APAK , ??? AS you really have to not want to believe it, to keep not seeing what is so very obvious.

I realize that a cult has you in the dark, regarding this truth of "I and my Father are one", but you dont have to continue to be their tool.

Its really up to you, at this point.

 

[Matthias]

Clearly some Trinitarians have gotten lost in the weeds of complexity.

It has been the official teaching of the Church since AD 451.

Why aren’t all trinitarians “lost in the weeds of complexity”? -> about 9 out of 10 have never heard it preached from the pulpit, they aren’t reading theology books and articles which discuss it, they don’t read it in the Bible; their families, their friends and acquaintances don’t know anything about it.

There is no abstract human nature with no person, like a zombie.

A human nature includes personhood as part of its definition.

See the Council of Chalcedon.

 

[APAK]

"God is A Spirit", and you just wrote "The Son's Spirit"., and you need to capitalize "Son's Spirit".

Be respectful of Christ, The Holy Spirit.

So that is true. as "Christ is THAT Spirit"........

"I and my Father are ONE".... = Holy Spirit.

"He that hath not the Spirit of GOD, (God is A Spirit), is none of God's", and "Christ IN YOU the hope of Glory" is "Christ is THAT Spirit".

See it yet, @APAK , ??? AS you really have to not want to believe it, to keep not seeing what is so very obvious.

I realize that a cult has you in the dark, regarding this truth of "I and my Father are one", but you dont have to continue to be their tool.

Its really up to you, at this point.

I really like you have provided feedback Behold although scripture does not say what you wrote. You are using your own impressions and forming your own opinions. Scripture says that the Holy Spirit is of the Father God only, not the Son. The Son has his own human spirit that is not the same as the Father, period. I cannot lie about this fact clearly written in scripture. This area continues to be an impasse and also should be a concern for one's salvation....the source of life and of all spirits is from the Father and never one of his creations, no matter how valuable, else confusion ensues as we see today.

thank you again...