Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

The Pharisees clearly understood Jesus
Again with this nonsense! It's so funny that you use the Pharisees in an Appeal to Authority. They are the ones who killed Jesus for the sin of blasphemy. I guess they were right before they were wrong.

The mental gymnastics is stunning! Just stunning.

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I point out that everyone says I am. Since saying I am is a claim to being a deity, and by everyone says it, the logical conclusion is that everyone is the one God.

Doesn't help the cause for the trinity.

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The Pharisees didn’t get your memo because they accused Jesus of making himself God:

(John 10:33) The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
 
The Pharisees didn’t get your memo because they accused Jesus of making himself God:

(John 10:33) The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
LOL You do not get it. IF you are going to rely on the authority of the Jews here - and be intellectually consisitent - you must rely on them for condemning Jesus for sinning, which again proves he is NOT God.
 
The Pharisees clearly understood Jesus because this was their accusation shortly after:

(John 10:33) The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
Well let me look as this verse then....just this one verse study needs time and effort to analyze....not just in one post

Never before Jesus did anyone approach the level of unity with God as he. This was a real eye-opener to these Pharisees. The reason why the Pharisees came to Jesus and not the other way around, was they wanted to know after hearing rumors etc that is he the Messiah the planned anointed one of God to save his people.

(Joh 10:24) and the people gathered all around him. They said, "How long are you going to keep us guessing? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly!"
(Joh 10:25) Jesus answered: I have told you, and you refused to believe me. The things I do by my Father's authority show who I am. (CEV)

And of course verse 25 says that Jesus is the Son of God and not God, his Father of course. The Father authorized the Son as the Messiah to perform miracles.....

Now later in verse 33, this close relation with his Father equated to blasphemy in the eyes of the Pharisees....they saw him as equating himself as being (a) god with the same power as the Father God as the Jews would believe it. And there can not be two gods of course. Of course this is not what was happening at all, as Jesus' power never came from himself, only his Father. He relied on him, his Father and his power, to sustain him all the way to the Cross.
 
Again with this nonsense! It's so funny that you use the Pharisees in an Appeal to Authority. They are the ones who killed Jesus for the sin of blasphemy. I guess they were right before they were wrong.

The mental gymnastics is stunning! Just stunning.

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Even more important was how Jesus responded and he said nothing close to what you said. I see that you make things up as you go along.
 
Retreating into Middle English does not help your cause one little bit.

In my goblet dwellthe all the fullness of the fine wine --> Doesn't make my goblet a fine wine.
If at all possible it's always a good idea to make the fine wine pay rent before you allow it to dwell anywhere. And make sure you put in the contract it's not allowed to remodel. Problem solved.
 
LOL You do not get it. IF you are going to rely on the authority of the Jews here - and be intellectually consisitent - you must rely on them for condemning Jesus for sinning, which again proves he is NOT God.
I rely on how Jesus responded and He said nothing close to what you say. I see that you are more than willing to disregard any and all Bible verses that do not align with unitarian heresies.
 
Retreating into Middle English does not help your cause one little bit.

In my goblet dwellthe all the fullness of the fine wine --> Doesn't make my goblet a fine wine.
I'm sorry I didn't know English was your second language. My apologies.

Is Italian , Portuguese or Spanish your primary language ?
 
Well let me look as this verse then....just this one verse study needs time and effort to analyze....not just in one post

Never before Jesus did anyone approach the level of unity with God as he. This was a real eye-opener to these Pharisees. The reason why the Pharisees came to Jesus and not the other way around, was they wanted to know after hearing rumors etc that is he the Messiah the planned anointed one of God to save his people.

(Joh 10:24) and the people gathered all around him. They said, "How long are you going to keep us guessing? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly!"
(Joh 10:25) Jesus answered: I have told you, and you refused to believe me. The things I do by my Father's authority show who I am. (CEV)

And of course verse 25 says that Jesus is the Son of God and not God, his Father of course. The Father authorized the Son as the Messiah to perform miracles.....

Now later in verse 33, this close relation with his Father equated to blasphemy in the eyes of the Pharisees....they saw him as equating himself as being (a) god with the same power as the Father God as the Jews would believe it. And there can not be two gods of course. Of course this is not what was happening at all, as Jesus' power never came from himself, only his Father. He relied on him, his Father and his power, to sustain him all the way to the Cross.
During His time on Earth, Jesus humbled himself to our level without ever giving up on His Divine nature. Why? To be our Exemplar. In what way? He relied on God the Father and also on God the Holy Spirit daily for everything. After His Ascension, Jesus possesses full God Glory sitting on His Father's throne, at His Father's right hand. As such, Jesus must be accorded full worship as God.

Of course we can never fully emulate Jesus in everything because He possesses a Divine Nature and we do not. We become like Jesus through Grace, never ever becoming exactly what Jesus is.
 
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Colossians 2:9 — The New International Version (NIV)

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Colossians 2:9 — English Standard Version (ESV)

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Colossians 2:9 — King James Version (KJV 1900)

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Colossians 2:9 — New Living Translation (NLT)

9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.

Colossians 2:9 — The New King James Version (NKJV)

9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Colossians 2:9 — New Century Version (NCV)

9 All of God lives fully in Christ (even when Christ was on earth),

Colossians 2:9 — 1890 Darby Bible (DARBY)

9 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily;

Colossians 2:9 — GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

9 All of God lives in Christ’s body,

Colossians 2:9 — The Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

9 For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,

Colossians 2:9 — The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Colossians 2:9 — The Lexham English Bible (LEB)

9 because in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Colossians 2:9 — New International Reader’s Version (1998) (NIrV)

9 God’s whole nature is living in Christ in human form.

Colossians 2:9 — New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (NASB95)

9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
 

What does Colossians 2:9 mean?​

Speaking of Christ, Paul closely imitates the phrasing he used in Colossians 1:19. In chapter 1, the connection was reconciliation with God through the blood of Christ. Here, the contrast is between the importance of deceptive human philosophy and Christ's wisdom. His ways are higher than our ways (Isaiah 55:9).

These words also emphasize the human aspect of Jesus. Some taught that Jesus was divine, but not fully human. Paul clearly noted Jesus was physically human while also fully divine (John 1:1). Though modern skeptics often argue belief in the deity of Jesus was a later development, Paul clearly believed and wrote about the deity of Jesus in this letter, which was written around AD 60—62. This was a teaching Paul said he received from the apostles after his conversion, which occurred within three years of the resurrection (Galatians 1:18). The doctrine of Jesus' deity is not a later invention, but the teaching of the eyewitnesses of Jesus.

 
God thinks it, Jesus speaks it and the Holy Spirit accomplishes it. Three in one...The Trinity

When we speak of God existing in three Persons, we mean that God’s existence is comprised of three distinct centers of intellect, emotion, and will. Each Person of the Trinity had a unique role in creation and in the salvation of mankind. The Holy Spirit is unique and is not the Father or the Son (He proceeds from the Father and the Son, John 15:26). The Father and the Son are also unique (when Jesus prayed to the Father, He was not praying to Himself, Luke 23:34). Each is God, but each is a separate “Person.” Using the word person is one of the only ways our language has to describe this concept.
Got?
 

What does Colossians 2:9 mean?​

Speaking of Christ, Paul closely imitates the phrasing he used in Colossians 1:19. In chapter 1, the connection was reconciliation with God through the blood of Christ. Here, the contrast is between the importance of deceptive human philosophy and Christ's wisdom. His ways are higher than our ways (Isaiah 55:9).

These words also emphasize the human aspect of Jesus. Some taught that Jesus was divine, but not fully human. Paul clearly noted Jesus was physically human while also fully divine (John 1:1). Though modern skeptics often argue belief in the deity of Jesus was a later development, Paul clearly believed and wrote about the deity of Jesus in this letter, which was written around AD 60—62. This was a teaching Paul said he received from the apostles after his conversion, which occurred within three years of the resurrection (Galatians 1:18). The doctrine of Jesus' deity is not a later invention, but the teaching of the eyewitnesses of Jesus.

Amen
 

Colossians 2:9 — The New International Version (NIV)

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Colossians 2:9 — English Standard Version (ESV)

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Colossians 2:9 — King James Version (KJV 1900)

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Colossians 2:9 — New Living Translation (NLT)

9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.

Colossians 2:9 — The New King James Version (NKJV)

9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Colossians 2:9 — New Century Version (NCV)

9 All of God lives fully in Christ (even when Christ was on earth),

Colossians 2:9 — 1890 Darby Bible (DARBY)

9 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily;

Colossians 2:9 — GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

9 All of God lives in Christ’s body,

Colossians 2:9 — The Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

9 For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,

Colossians 2:9 — The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Colossians 2:9 — The Lexham English Bible (LEB)

9 because in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Colossians 2:9 — New International Reader’s Version (1998) (NIrV)

9 God’s whole nature is living in Christ in human form.

Colossians 2:9 — New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (NASB95)

9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
Can I ask you or anyone that loves this verse so much to explain it to me in simple language and maybe add in other associated scripture as examples of its full meaning?

Thanks
 
Fortunately there are no scripture verses, passages, chapters that speak to Christ's pre-existence. John especially would not speak of such nonsense and fantasies as his main theme was the discovery and advertisement of the Son of God, his Father, who God first created him on earth and then lived within him, even today.
John 1:1:3
Phil 2:6-9
Col 1:15-20
Heb 1:10-12
Isa 9:6-7


Doug
 
You think you might know of such passages, although I wager you really do not know scripture sufficiently to tell either way. And besides, you have shown you are driven solely by your sources and books, by your religious convictions over the word of God and what your religious teachers and their doctrines teach you to know.

Fortunately there are no scripture verses, passages, chapters that speak to Christ's pre-existence. John especially would not speak of such nonsense and fantasies as his main theme was the discovery and advertisement of the Son of God, his Father, who God first created him on earth and then lived within him, even today.

Do you believe that God lives within Jesus today civic? Now you can find scripture that does support this critical salvation question, right? And you do not even have to lift another book or other sources in support....


John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:14
14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory

These verses in John’s prologue reveal the pre existence of the Eternal Word/Son who was God and became flesh. He was the Creator of all things. Nothing came into existence apart from Him. He is before everything that has a beginning.

John 1:15
15
John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"

John 1:30
"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'

John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is impossible for Christ to be before him unless Jesus pre existed.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.

Again we see the pre existence of the Son and where He declares that He came from heaven to earth.

John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.

This verse shows the Son was sent from heaven by the Father to the earth.

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

Human beings come into existence when they are born into this world, but we surely do not come from Heaven.

John 8:23
"You are from beneath I Am from above, you are of this world I Am not of this world"
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am."

Here we see that Jesus lets the Pharisees know that He existed as a person before Abraham was born. Once again we see Jesus claiming to be the Eternal God.
Jhn 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:1,5

“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,

And now, Father, glorify Me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Here we see the Son declared that He shared the same Glory together with the Father prior to creation. This passage makes Him equal with the Father as the Eternal God. Below again we see His pre existence and in 17:25 Jesus again states the Father sent the Son into


John 17:24
"Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.
Below we read it was the Son who already existed as the Son which the Father sent into the world.

John 3:16-17"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.

1 Cor 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.


Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

1 John 4:14
And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

In 1 John 3:8 we see that the Son of Gods appearance or manifestation was for this very purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. The verb φανερόω means to make manifest, appeared, to make visible or to bring to light something that was previously hidden. This clearly means that Jesus had already existed as the Son of God and He was made manifest or visible to us.

Now we also know from Johns writings that those who deny Jesus came in the flesh are the spirit of antichrist. Those who deny God became flesh and dwelt among us are deceivers. The Incarnation was permanent as we read in 2 John 7- Jesus has come in the flesh. A past action with present results.


Col 1:13-18For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15 And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Heb 1:2-3in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.

Heb 1:8
But of the Son He says,

"Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever,

Heb 5:7-8
In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.


The question is who or what was He before the days of His flesh? It is obvious that He pre existed before His birth(days of His flesh) as the Divine Son who is the 2nd person of the Trinity.

hope this helps !!!
 
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