Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[Matthias]

Interesting how you appeal to the Bible as being the sole authority here when you've endless been appealing to opinion.

Do you exclusively reserve that right to yourself?

I point out to trinitarian audiences the concessions which have been made to my belief in trinitarian scholarship.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I’m a Jewish monotheist. There is no God besides the Messiah’s own God. Everything else is idolatry.

You said Jesus is Divine. Thank God. That is not Jewish Monotheism.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I point out to trinitarian audiences the concessions which have been made to my belief in trinitarian scholarship.

I'm not going to waste my time reading back through what you think you've exposed. Do you believe you've actually accomplished something?

 

[Johann]

I believe that Jesus himself is divine (i.e. Godlike) but, just as I don’t believe that the Trinity is the God of Israel, neither do I believe that Jesus himself is.

The God of Israel is the Messiah’s God; not the Messiah, nor the Trinity.

If you want to know my opinion, your belief fits better with orthodoxy. It doesn’t fit mine at all.

So your worldview is Orthodox Judaism-correct brother?
I am merely inquiring-not here to "shoot you down"

 

[Matthias]

But I must say that I find it amusing when someone takes one sentence from the thousands of pages I have written and determines that I don’t believe Yeshua is divine or that I think all Christians are Torah-resistant fools or that every Christian doctrine is an attempt to deliberately manipulate us.

Here’s my suggestion: Read a few hundred pages before you get flustered because you think your most precious doctrines are under attack. I am sure we could have a profitable dialogue about omniscience, forgiveness, atonement, inerrancy and a dozen other theological issues. But the key for me is dialogue, not doctrine. I do not find myself shackled to ossified propositions from past philosophical dilemmas. I do hope to someday understand what God told His people.

I have only one purpose – to find out what the text says, that is, what it meant to the audience that heard it first, what it meant in that culture’s paradigm. So I search anywhere and everywhere that the text takes me. That’s all. That’s enough. I barely have time for even this.

I am trying to find out how to live as a Gentile follower of Yeshua who serves YHVH. Along the way, I am finding that a lot of the forms of Christian theology don’t fit the Scriptures I read, and that means I have to rethink things. But please don’t call me a heretic unless I actually become one.
Moen

So it all comes back to echad-and the meaning of echad-tell me brother, do you believe Jesus pre-existed WITH YHVH?

or is this also too far fetched?

Echad is a very simple Hebrew word. I’ve spoken about it at some length on this forum.

Do I believe Jesus pre-existed with YHVH? Of course I do.

So too does orthodoxy.

Orthodoxy teaches that Jesus is not a human person. Orthodoxy teaches that Jesus literally pre-existed as YHVH - the second person of the Trinity.

The way that you phrased your question is brilliant. That’s a way that I would phrase it. It makes a distinction between YHVH and Jesus.

 

[Matthias]

I'm not going to waste my time reading back through what you think you've exposed. Do you believe you've actually accomplished something?

Of course I have accomplished something. Every time I’m allowed to speak on a trinitarian forum I’m given the opportunity to witness.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Of course I have accomplished something. Every time I’m allowed to speak on a trinitarian forum I’m given the opportunity to witness.

Witness to what?

 

[Matthias]

So your worldview is Orthodox Judaism-correct brother?
I am merely inquiring-not here to "shoot you down"

No. My worldview is Christian; specifically, a Christian worldview that was destroyed by orthodoxy.

Gregory of Nyssa. Remember that name. The entire world needs to hear the boast that comes from his mouth.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Echad is a very simple Hebrew word. I’ve spoken about it at some length on this forum.

Do I believe Jesus pre-existed with YHVH? Of course I do.

So too does orthodoxy.

Orthodoxy teaches that Jesus is not a human person. Orthodoxy teaches that Jesus literally pre-existed as YHVH - the second person of the Trinity.

The way that you phrased your question is brilliant. That’s a way that I would phrase it. It makes a distinction between YHVH and Jesus.

Unity.... Humm........

Unity in God? Ah, It amazes me how someone can appeal to Unity and singularity at the same time without recognizing doctrines relative to the teaching of the Trinity. You should have lead with this.

 

[Matthias]

You said Jesus is Divine. Thank God. That is not Jewish Monotheism.

It is Jewish monotheism.

 

[Matthias]

Witness to what?

The one true God and his Messiah.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The one true God and his Messiah.

Unity?

 

[Matthias]

Unity.... Humm........

Unity in God? Ah, It amazes me how someone can appeal to Unity and singularity at the same time without recognizing doctrines relative to the teaching of the Trinity. You should have lead with this.

The one God of the Bible is a single person, the Father.

 

[Matthias]

Unity?

Jewish unitary monotheism.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is Jewish monotheism.

Your flavor. You're just as guilty as what you see in Trinitarians. You certainly not Orthodox relative to Jewish Monotheism.

 

[civic]

Your flavor. You're just as guilty as what you see in Trinitarians. You certainly not Orthodox relative to Jewish Monotheism.

You of all people on this forum should know that lol.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jewish unitary monotheism.

At best, you have a blended teaching. It is not pure.

 

[Matthias]

Your flavor.

The Messiah’s own belief about who his God and the God of his disciples is.

You're just as guilty as what you see in Trinitarians. You certainly not Orthodox relative to Jewish Monotheism.

I addressed this a few moments ago.

I get on well when I visit a synagogue and speak with them about the one God. I don’t get along well on a visit to a synagogue when I speak with them about the Jew from Nazareth who is the one God’s Messiah.

 

[Matthias]

At best, you have a blended teaching. It is not pure.

It is the Messiah’s teaching.

Christianity began as a sect of, and within, Judaism.

 

[civic]

At best, you have a blended teaching. It is not pure.

not kosher thats for sure