Is Jesus the Christ a human Person?

[civic]

No. They don't refute my words one little bit. This verse says nothing like the Messiah as God ... It's amazing the extreme claims trinitarian's make from monotheist text.

No you claim is only God raised Him from the dead which makes Him God by default from the unitarians own argument the backbites them everytime.

 

[Matthias]

No doubt. At your very best you're stuck between Orthodox Jewish Monotheism and traditional Trinitarianism.

Spiritual enemies to the left of me. Spiritual enemies to the right of me.

You're not so different from us as others. I'm glad. I'm not criticizing you. However, I believe you need to openly recognize this if you're going to use the tactics you're using.

 

[Matthias]

We are not so different. If you love Messiah, we are brothers in Christ. Not enemies.

It’s not the same Jesus.

Many believers have a varied view of Christ. It takes time to learn of Him. We are all on a journey to know Him more. If you see yourself a servant to Messiah, then I'm thankful for you.

 

[synergy]

I agree that you don’t. I’m pointing out the disconnect that exists between the average trinitarian and your trinitarian theologians and scholars.

There is no disconnect between us and Saint Basil. Find just one disconnect between us and Saint Basil.

This is the type of comment which causes conversations to generate.

As long as it does not degenerate then we're good. Good to hear that.

 

[civic]

No doubt. At your very best you're stuck between Orthodox Jewish Monotheism and traditional Trinitarianism. You're not so different from us as others. I'm glad. I'm not criticizing you. However, I believe you need to openly recognize this if you're going to use the tactics you're using.

Notice where the divisiveness is coming from.

 

[Wrangler]

Trinitarians talk about Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, Saints, etc.... We don't refer to God's commissioned people as Agents. Unitarians have been watching too many Spy movies lately.

Cc: @Wrangler

An agent is merely a general word for all these specific terms. You can throw priest and emissary in that mix as well.

Not is God but Jesus is OF God. Why do you suppose Jesus is a priest, prophet, apostle, witness OF? The simple answer is OF God. This is language usage. If Jesus were God, Scripture would not say God is the head of Jesus. It's just nonsense to suppose one is head of themselves.


What do you make of Jesus being an apostle? See Hebrews 3:1.

 

[Johann]

No. My worldview is Christian; specifically, a Christian worldview that was destroyed by orthodoxy.

Gregory of Nyssa. Remember that name. The entire world needs to hear the boast that comes from his mouth.

So in the beginning was "the thought?" John 1.1? No pre-existence with the Elohim?
So, according to the podcast-the Word, not Jesus, was an extremely important being?
So when I read John 1.1 I should read-In the beginning was "the thought" not Jesus, not the Son, but the D,var
So my question would be-If the Logos was just a thought, how can a thought be a person or being?
So Jesus performed miracles and forgave sins only what God could do-even if He was "sent"
Even as I am listening to this video clip and the Scriptures they use to debunk the Triune Godhead-sounds awful much like the JW's brother.
Or-Tovia Singer
And Jesus was not "mighty God but mighty warrior?"

I have listened to most of Tovia Singer's debates and this has that kind of reasoning and philosophy.

Ever listened to Dr. Brown's debates against Tovia Singer?

 

[Matthias]

There is no plural God.

The Messiah’s own God isn’t plural.

Trinitarianism formulated a deity which isn’t the Messiah’s own God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So in the beginning was "the thought?" John 1.1? No pre-existence with the Elohim?
So, according to the podcast-the Word, not Jesus, was an extremely important being?
So when I read John 1.1 I should read-In the beginning was "the thought" not Jesus, not the Son, but the D,var
So my question would be-If the Logos was just a thought, how can a thought be a person or being?
So Jesus performed miracles and forgave sins only what God could do-even if He was "sent"
Even as I am listening to this video clip and the Scriptures they use to debunk the Triune Godhead-sounds awful much like the JW's brother.
Or-Tovia Singer
And Jesus was not "mighty God but mighty warrior?"

I have listened to most of Tovia Singer's debates and this has that kind of reasoning and philosophy.

Ever listened to Dr. Brown's debates against Tovia Singer?

I've tried to engage Tovia several times in my life. He is a very isolated and dismissive person.

 

[Johann]

I've tried to engage Tovia several times in my life. He is a very isolated and dismissive person.

Yes, he is getting older and not so healthy.
Other than that he would dismiss you as a Goyim and if you read the Babylonian Talmud you would understand how they view the Ha-Goyim, and where Islam "copied" their religion from.
Shalom.
J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, he is getting older and not so healthy.
Other than that he would dismiss you as a Goyim and if you read the Babylonian Talmud you would understand how they view the Ha-Goyim, and where Islam "copied" their religion from.
Shalom.
J.

Refreshing to read this from another..... Thank you!

 

[Matthias]

So in the beginning was "the thought?" John 1.1? No pre-existence with the Elohim?
So, according to the podcast-the Word, not Jesus, was an extremely important being?
So when I read John 1.1 I should read-In the beginning was "the thought" not Jesus, not the Son, but the D,var
So my question would be-If the Logos was just a thought, how can a thought be a person or being?
So Jesus performed miracles and forgave sins only what God could do-even if He was "sent"
Even as I am listening to this video clip and the Scriptures they use to debunk the Triune Godhead-sounds awful much like the JW's brother.
Or-Tovia Singer
And Jesus was not "mighty God but mighty warrior?"

I have listened to most of Tovia Singer's debates and this has that kind of reasoning and philosophy.

Ever listened to Dr. Brown's debates against Tovia Singer?

I’ve listened to, and been personally involved in, so many debates that I came to see what they did to me and what they do to others. For the past twenty years I’ve stayed away from them.

I’m not a JW. I don’t believe what the JW’s believe about Jesus. (Just as I say to the trinitarian that they have “another Jesus,” I say also to the JW. The JW and I do not believe in the same Jesus.) Because what they believe about Jesus cannot be separated from what they say about the one God, I reject much - but not all - that they say about the one God.

How can a thought be a person or being? That’s precisely the right question to ask a Jewish monotheist. The question itself is ridiculous to ask a trinitarian.

People, places and things existed in the thought of the one God before they literally came into existence. That’s ideal (also called “notional”) preexistence.

 

[Diserner]

Jesus was just a twinkle in his Father's eye.

Amazing that a thought can create the world and atone for the sins of mankind, isn't it.

 

[Matthias]

So in the beginning was "the thought?" John 1.1? No pre-existence with the Elohim?
So, according to the podcast-the Word, not Jesus, was an extremely important being?
So when I read John 1.1 I should read-In the beginning was "the thought" not Jesus, not the Son, but the D,var
So my question would be-If the Logos was just a thought, how can a thought be a person or being?
So Jesus performed miracles and forgave sins only what God could do-even if He was "sent"
Even as I am listening to this video clip and the Scriptures they use to debunk the Triune Godhead-sounds awful much like the JW's brother.
Or-Tovia Singer
And Jesus was not "mighty God but mighty warrior?"

I have listened to most of Tovia Singer's debates and this has that kind of reasoning and philosophy.

Ever listened to Dr. Brown's debates against Tovia Singer?

Have you read John’s prologue in the Geneva Bible? (The Geneva Bible was translated and published by orthodox trinitarians.)

 

[Matthias]

Jesus was just a twinkle in his Father's eye.

Amazing that a thought can create the world and atone for the sins of mankind, isn't it.

A thought didn’t create the world. The one true God who had the thought in mind did.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I’ve listened to, and been personally involved in, so many debates that I came to see what they did to me and what they do to others. For the past twenty years I’ve stayed away from them.

I’m not a JW. I don’t believe what the JW’s believe about Jesus. (Just as I say to the trinitarian that they have “another Jesus,” I say also to the JW. The JW and I do not believe in the same Jesus.) Because what they believe about Jesus cannot be separated from what they say about the one God, I reject much - but not all - that they say about the one God.

How can a thought be a person or being? That’s precisely the right question to ask a Jewish monotheist. The question itself is ridiculous to ask a trinitarian.

People, places and things existed in the thought of the one God before they literally came into existence. That’s ideal (also called “notional”) preexistence.

I see you finding comfort more in secondary sources and the endless striving of men than focusing upon the Scriptures themselves. I found misery in such things a very long time ago. Your journey isn't over.

 

[synergy]

An agent is merely a general word for all these specific terms. You can throw priest and emissary in that mix as well.

Not is God but Jesus is OF God. Why do you suppose Jesus is a priest, prophet, apostle, witness OF? The simple answer is OF God. This is language usage. If Jesus were God, Scripture would not say God is the head of Jesus. It's just nonsense to suppose one is head of themselves.

Jesus is not any run of the mill Priest, Apostle, etc... He is the Penultimate Divine Uncreated High Priest, the Penultimate Prophet, etc...

What do you make of Jesus being an apostle? See Hebrews 3:1.

Wonderful. Now what about His other titles like the Uncreated Word of God, the "I Am" of the OT, etc... What do you make of that?

 

[Matthias]

Jesus was just a twinkle in his Father's eye.

Jesus is a human person.

 

[Johann]

I’ve listened to, and been personally involved in, so many debates that I came to see what they did to me and what they do to others. For the past twenty years I’ve stayed away from them.

I’m not a JW. I don’t believe what the JW’s believe about Jesus. (Just as I say to the trinitarian that they have “another Jesus,” I say also to the JW. The JW and I do not believe in the same Jesus.) Because what they believe about Jesus cannot be separated from what they say about the one God, I reject much - but not all - that they say about the one God.

How can a thought be a person or being? That’s precisely the right question to ask a Jewish monotheist. The question itself is ridiculous to ask a trinitarian.

People, places and things existed in the thought of the one God before they literally came into existence. That’s ideal (also called “notional”) preexistence.

So the dual nature of Jesus is just a concept?

Still listening to this podcast.

 

[Matthias]

I see you finding comfort more in secondary sources and the endless striving of men than focusing upon the Scriptures themselves.

That accounts for part of your error in what you think about me. I’m formally educated in orthodoxy. The secondary sources aren’t optional in orthodoxy.

The secondary sources are essential in understanding how, when, why and where the doctrine of the Trinity was developed and formulated in post-biblical times.

I found misery in such things a very long time ago. Your journey isn't over.

What you found miserable other trinitarians have commended me for reading.