Is anyone else a Seer?

[Neil Spargo]

This implies after death? Where is this found in the Bible. Peter says different.

1 John 1:8 states, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us".

John sent this Epistle to the churches near Ephesus, where John spent his latter years. So he is talking about Himself and other believers.

From A Personal Study Bible Unveiling All God’s Fullness In All God’s Word
By Jack W. Hayford, ed., Spirit Filled Life Study Bible


1 John 1:8 also means that claiming to be without sin is self-deception and is not based on truth. The verse, and its follow-up in verse 9, emphasizes that the reality of sin requires Christians to continuously confess their sins to God in order to maintain fellowship with Him, and that through this confession, they receive forgiveness and cleansing. Denial of sin is presented as a lie and an act of self-deception that hinders spiritual growth.

 

[Peterlag]

They are definite stages of a Christians life, but not at the same time as that phrase suggests. But righteousness is sinlessness 1 John 3. And holiness is perfection 2 Peter 1:5-11 after ALL of the gifts of the Spirit have been matured by Jesus as we abide in Him. So even though "sinless perfection" should not be used does not negate those stages separately.

Remember there are two levels of sin. Sins unto death which are the desires in our nature that Jesus takes away, making us sinless of the highest level of sin. And sins NOT unto death which we will commit even while walking in the light, but the blood of Jesus does cleanse us as we abide in him. 1 John 1:7.

cc: @Neil Spargo Do you believe the scriptures I've noted?

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
The verse does not say dead to sinless perfection...

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
The verse does not say body of sinless perfection might be destroyed...

For he that is dead is freed from sin.
The verse does not say freed from sinless perfection.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,
The verse does not say for sinless perfection shall not have...

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
The verse does not say free from sinless perfection...

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
The verse does not say free from sinless perfection...

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
The verse does not say whosoever abideth in him sinless perfectioneth not...

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
The verse does not say commit sinless perfection, and that he cannot have sinless perfection...

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
The verse does not say born of God sinless perfectioned not.

@Neil Spargo

 

[dwight92070]

Let's see. Please answer this question. Does a born again of the Holy Spirit Christian still have a sin nature? Yes, or no? Scripture please.

You should use the specific words that the Bible uses. "Sin nature" is not found in the Bible. Tell me, is the sick person who is prayed for in James 5:15 born again? James includes him in verse 12 - "my brethren" and in verse 13 "Is anyone among you (believers) sick?" Yet James says in verse 15, "and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him." Imagine that, a born again believer who gets sick - and may have committed sins.
Then in verse 16 James says to all the believers: "Therefore confess your sins to one another (believers), and pray for one another (believers) so that you may be healed."

 

[Peterlag]

You should use the specific words that the Bible uses. "Sin nature" is not found in the Bible. Tell me, is the sick person who is prayed for in James 5:15 born again? James includes him in verse 12 - "my brethren" and in verse 13 "Is anyone among you (believers) sick?" Yet James says in verse 15, "and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him." Imagine that, a born again believer who gets sick - and may have committed sins.
Then in verse 16 James says to all the believers: "Therefore confess your sins to one another (believers), and pray for one another (believers) so that you may be healed."

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! (NIV)

 

[Wilber]

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
The verse does not say dead to sinless perfection...

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
The verse does not say body of sinless perfection might be destroyed...

For he that is dead is freed from sin.
The verse does not say freed from sinless perfection.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,
The verse does not say for sinless perfection shall not have...

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
The verse does not say free from sinless perfection...

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
The verse does not say free from sinless perfection...

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
The verse does not say whosoever abideth in him sinless perfectioneth not...

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
The verse does not say commit sinless perfection, and that he cannot have sinless perfection...

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
The verse does not say born of God sinless perfectioned not.

@Neil Spargo

Sinless perfectioned is a myth not going to happen.

 

[Neil Spargo]

Sinless perfectioned is a myth not going to happen.

Right on.

 

[Peterlag]

Sinless perfectioned is a myth not going to happen.

I don't teach sinless perfection. I teach sin such as...

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[charismaticlady]

1 John 1:8 states, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us".

John sent this Epistle to the churches near Ephesus, where John spent his latter years. So he is talking about Himself and other believers.

From A Personal Study Bible Unveiling All God’s Fullness In All God’s Word
By Jack W. Hayford, ed., Spirit Filled Life Study Bible


1 John 1:8 also means that claiming to be without sin is self-deception and is not based on truth. The verse, and its follow-up in verse 9, emphasizes that the reality of sin requires Christians to continuously confess their sins to God in order to maintain fellowship with Him, and that through this confession, they receive forgiveness and cleansing. Denial of sin is presented as a lie and an act of self-deception that hinders spiritual growth.

Once we are born again of the Holy Spirit Jesus removes the desire to commit a sin unto death, such as breaking one of the Ten Commandments. I lost the desire to commit adultery when the Holy Spirit came upon me on 2/9/77. Up until then I was trapped in an affair and had no desire to quit, even though I tried every month, breaking up with him, then asking him back again. That is how weak our flesh is and how strong our sin nature is. But after being filled with the Spirit after I saw a vision (the first) and God spoke to me (8 sentences) and completely cleansed me of all unrighteousness, and poured what felt like warm oil from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. I actually felt a dark heaviness leave my body and felt light as a feather. I was then strong as an ox and had absolutely no desire to commit a sin unto death ever again.

Those who are not filled with the power of the gospel, the Holy Spirit, are living a lie and cannot relate to what I just described. Mind you, I told you I had gone to church for nearly 30 years unsaved before being born again. Do you still need 1 John 1:9, the verse that equates to Peter's Acts 2:38, Repent, ...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." That confession is only needed once! But false teachers are preaching to an auditorium of unsaved people who sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent ad infinitum! Which can you relate to? They have no power to walk away from sins unto death.

On the other hand, the born again believers walk in the Spirit and the mistakes they may make having to do with immature fruit of the Spirit (sins not unto death 1 John 5:16-17, just need to heed the check in their Spirit and stop doing what they were doing. That is enough. 1 John 1:7. Like I am doing with you. I apologize for making you feel bad, and will stop that behavior. As I've told you, I think you are smart and I want to work with you on the truth of the gospel. Yes, sinlessness has nothing to do with immature fruit of the Spirit, and everything to do with sins unto death. You can see the difference in Numbers 15:22-36. There was a sacrifice for unintentional sins (fruit), but NO sacrifice for sins unto death like my adultery. That level of sin is taken out of our nature and is the consummation you spoke of. Those sins unto death you NEED to confess using 1 John 1:9 to receive the Holy Spirit and be born again of the Spirit.

There is no need for anyone to feel hopeless and distraught even over "sinless perfection" as it doesn't have to do with what we DO. Jesus does it all! He is the Author and Finisher of our faith, not us. All we need to do is that first repentance and belief in Jesus, and then abide in Him. That is the most important thing we need to keep doing. Once the Holy Spirit is in you He gives you the opposite desire in your now clean nature to read His Word and dwell on Jesus. As we do that then it is Jesus, not us, who matures all the fruit of the Spirit in us. I have noticed after years on Christian forums that I am not the same poster as I used to be. Jesus is finishing me, by perfecting me unto holiness. Rev. 22:11.

By the way, there is a misunderstanding in the Church regarding repentance. I "turned away" from my affair month after month and was not able to. THAT is the realization you must come to. We are weak and must ask Jesus to empower us to keep His word and to come into our soul. This is called integrity of heart. That helped me stop the monthly yo-yoing. I heard a sermon on integrity of heart and then told Jesus that I realize I am too weak to stop loving this man, so if He wanted this affair to stop, to make him break up with me, and give him the strength to stay away from me when I would try to get him back. Jesus answered that prayer (the first answer in my whole life) and one week later he did just that. Two weeks later I received the Holy Spirit.

By the way, the use of "we" and "I" as in Romans 7 and 8 is an eastern method. You're reading with a western mindset and it doesn't mean the same to us as the apostles meant it. So remember that. For instance, Romans 7:14-25 Paul uses I, as if he currently had a problem with sin. But a few sentences later Paul again uses "me" in Romans 8:2 which says he was now FREE from Romans 7:14-25. And John says in 1 John 2:1 " My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin." Would he really mean what you think 1 John 1:8 means if we couldn't stop sinning as you believe? 1 John 1 from 5-10 is a Semitic contrast of light verses darkness. 6, 8 and 10 are darkness. 5, 7 and 9 represent light.

 

[charismaticlady]

I don't teach sinless perfection. I teach sin such as...

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

Peter, you must show the context. Verse 4 lawlessness. Those are against the Commandments of God and are sins unto death. It doesn't mean your fruit will suddenly mature over night, but the desire to break God's law is gone, thus 1 John 3:9.

 

[Peterlag]

Peter, you must show the context. Verse 4 lawlessness. Those are against the Commandments of God and are sins unto death. It doesn't mean your fruit will suddenly mature over night, but the desire to break God's law is gone, thus 1 John 3:9.

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

 

[Neil Spargo]

Once we are born again of the Holy Spirit Jesus removes the desire to commit a sin unto death, such as breaking one of the Ten Commandments. I lost the desire to commit adultery when the Holy Spirit came upon me on 2/9/77. Up until then I was trapped in an affair and had no desire to quit, even though I tried every month, breaking up with him, then asking him back again. That is how weak our flesh is and how strong our sin nature is. But after being filled with the Spirit after I saw a vision (the first) and God spoke to me (8 sentences) and completely cleansed me of all unrighteousness, and poured what felt like warm oil from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. I actually felt a dark heaviness leave my body and felt light as a feather. I was then strong as an ox and had absolutely no desire to commit a sin unto death ever again.

Those who are not filled with the power of the gospel, the Holy Spirit, are living a lie and cannot relate to what I just described. Mind you, I told you I had gone to church for nearly 30 years unsaved before being born again. Do you still need 1 John 1:9, the verse that equates to Peter's Acts 2:38, Repent, ...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." That confession is only needed once! But false teachers are preaching to an auditorium of unsaved people who sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent ad infinitum! Which can you relate to? They have no power to walk away from sins unto death.

On the other hand, the born again believers walk in the Spirit and the mistakes they may make having to do with immature fruit of the Spirit (sins not unto death 1 John 5:16-17, just need to heed the check in their Spirit and stop doing what they were doing. That is enough. 1 John 1:7. Like I am doing with you. I apologize for making you feel bad, and will stop that behavior. As I've told you, I think you are smart and I want to work with you on the truth of the gospel. Yes, sinlessness has nothing to do with immature fruit of the Spirit, and everything to do with sins unto death. You can see the difference in Numbers 15:22-36. There was a sacrifice for unintentional sins (fruit), but NO sacrifice for sins unto death like my adultery. That level of sin is taken out of our nature and is the consummation you spoke of. Those sins unto death you NEED to confess using 1 John 1:9 to receive the Holy Spirit and be born again of the Spirit.

There is no need for anyone to feel hopeless and distraught even over "sinless perfection" as it doesn't have to do with what we DO. Jesus does it all! He is the Author and Finisher of our faith, not us. All we need to do is that first repentance and belief in Jesus, and then abide in Him. That is the most important thing we need to keep doing. Once the Holy Spirit is in you He gives you the opposite desire in your now clean nature to read His Word and dwell on Jesus. As we do that then it is Jesus, not us, who matures all the fruit of the Spirit in us. I have noticed after years on Christian forums that I am not the same poster as I used to be. Jesus is finishing me, by perfecting me unto holiness. Rev. 22:11.

By the way, there is a misunderstanding in the Church regarding repentance. I "turned away" from my affair month after month and was not able to. THAT is the realization you must come to. We are weak and must ask Jesus to empower us to keep His word and to come into our soul. This is called integrity of heart. That helped me stop the monthly yo-yoing. I heard a sermon on integrity of heart and then told Jesus that I realize I am too weak to stop loving this man, so if He wanted this affair to stop, to make him break up with me, and give him the strength to stay away from me when I would try to get him back. Jesus answered that prayer (the first answer in my whole life) and one week later he did just that. Two weeks later I received the Holy Spirit.

By the way, the use of "we" and "I" as in Romans 7 and 8 is an eastern method. You're reading with a western mindset and it doesn't mean the same to us as the apostles meant it. So remember that. For instance, Romans 7:14-25 Paul uses I, as if he currently had a problem with sin. But a few sentences later Paul again uses "me" in Romans 8:2 which says he was now FREE from Romans 7:14-25. And John says in 1 John 2:1 " My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin." Would he really mean what you think 1 John 1:8 means if we couldn't stop sinning as you believe? 1 John 1 from 5-10 is a Semitic contrast of light verses darkness. 6, 8 and 10 are darkness. 5, 7 and 9 represent light.

Mind set or not the fact is born again Christians do sin. “Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

We still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.” Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17).

Way do you think Jesus tough foot washing?

Salvation is a one-time act of justification by faith. What follows is the lifelong process of sanctification: a daily washing away of the stain of sin. As we walk through the world, some of the world’s spiritual filth will cling to us, and that needs to be washed away—forgiven by Christ

This passage was written to believers:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

 

[Peterlag]

Mind set or not the fact is born again Christians do sin. “Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

We still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.” Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17).

Way do you think Jesus tough foot washing?

Salvation is a one-time act of justification by faith. What follows is the lifelong process of sanctification: a daily washing away of the stain of sin. As we walk through the world, some of the world’s spiritual filth will cling to us, and that needs to be washed away—forgiven by Christ

This passage was written to believers:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Not when you're in him which is the same as in the spirit.

Galatians5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

It's the "in him" that you do not understand.

Again, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 

[Wilber]

Not when you're in him which is the same as in the spirit.

Galatians5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

It's the "in him" that you do not understand.

Again, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

You sin and you know it. Go ahead and say it, right here right now that you never sin.

 

[Peterlag]

You sin and you know it. Go ahead and say it, right here right now that you never sin.

The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh. Religious people don't follow after the spirit, but rather they follow after their flesh and call it spiritual. The religious folks lead with their flesh and call it Christian. The church folks clean up their flesh by making themselves nice. Then they say this is Christian because we are being nice like the way Jesus was. In contrast to that, I believe we should walk after the spirit of Christ.

Stephen full of Faith and Power (2000), p. 153 https://walking-by-the-spirit.com

 

[charismaticlady]

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

I like this. But I want to ask, are you still troubled by Romans 6 or was that in the past when you were being taught a false teaching of born again Christians are still sinners, probably based on 1 John 1:8 which is before being born again through confession of sin in verse 9.

I would say that Paul tells us after being born again and the desire to sin has been cut off through the circumcision of Christ, that we should still have that mindset of reckoning ourselves free from sin so we don't get brainwashed from some false teacher who drills it into us that we are still sinners and always will be so still need to confess our sins over and over again, making ourselves weak in their heresy. Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he." If you think you are always a sinner, you will be, even if Jesus has taken away all desire to sin, you still have free will to sin, believing Jesus will forgive your "past, present and future" sins, which is not in the Bible. 2 Peter 1:9 only says past sins. And for good reason. The gospel is the power of God, not the permission of God to sin because they cling to the false doctrine of the penalty for sin has already been paid.

 

[charismaticlady]

You sin and you know it. Go ahead and say it, right here right now that you never sin.

Which type of sin are you referring to? The sins of 1 John 3, or the sins of 2 Peter 1:5-7?

1 John 5:16-17.

 

[charismaticlady]

Mind set or not the fact is born again Christians do sin. “Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10).

Romans chapters one through eight is one teaching showing the difference between the Old Testament and their saints and the New Covenant of the Spirit. You are taking one of the middle chapters about the Old Testament and applying it to yourself who are suppose to be Romans 6 and 8, the conclusion, plus Romans 7:5-6, and Romans 3:31 - we establish the law. That means we naturally keep the law with our clean nature. Hasn't Jesus done that in you? Do you still desire to do any of the sins of the flesh of Galatians 5:19-21? "19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I'll break this up and discuss these paragraphs one at a time.

 

[charismaticlady]

We still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.” Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17).

Keep reading what Paul says that corrects that weakness of trying to be good through keeping the Law of Moses that you are applying to Christians and not who Paul was actually speaking about - those UNDER the law - the Pharisees whom he once was.

Romans 8:1-There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Now in Galatians 5, you put two verses together that again are the born again (16), and those still in the flesh (17). It is not your fault. The Publishers of most Bibles capitalize the "s" in spirit, when actually it is just repeating Romans 7:25. That spirit is our mind before Christ and His Spirit.

Romans 8:9 "But you are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indwells you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Paul speaks of two kinds of "flesh." You are not discerning which one he is talking about it seems. Our old carnal nature that has been cleansed, or our body of muscles and bone.

Have you ever been baptized with the Holy Spirit? Tell me about it if you think you have.

 

[charismaticlady]

Way do you think Jesus tough foot washing?

Salvation is a one-time act of justification by faith. What follows is the lifelong process of sanctification: a daily washing away of the stain of sin. As we walk through the world, some of the world’s spiritual filth will cling to us, and that needs to be washed away—forgiven by Christ

This passage was written to believers:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Oh my!

Sanctification was done at the same time as you were justified. 1 Corinthians 6:11 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Past tense.

You: "What follows is the lifelong process of sanctification: a daily washing away of the stain of sin."

That is the false teaching of the Reformation. That is not what happens. We MUST be born again. A person who keeps on sinning sins unto death has NOT been born again! 1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

And don't think adding "practice" to the word of God is true. Like, you will slip sometimes, but don't make sin a practice. That is so foolish. It is like "I don't practice murder, but once in a while I'll slip up. That is what all those graves are in my back yard!" NO! We don't murder even once! Our sin nature is gone! We are clean. John 15:3.

By the way, the "process" is not about overcoming sin as you said. That was completed when Jesus circumcised us, Colossians 2:11"In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ."

Have you ever seen a foreskin grow back?

 

[Peterlag]

I like this. But I want to ask, are you still troubled by Romans 6 or was that in the past when you were being taught a false teaching of born again Christians are still sinners, probably based on 1 John 1:8 which is before being born again through confession of sin in verse 9.

I would say that Paul tells us after being born again and the desire to sin has been cut off through the circumcision of Christ, that we should still have that mindset of reckoning ourselves free from sin so we don't get brainwashed from some false teacher who drills it into us that we are still sinners and always will be so still need to confess our sins over and over again, making ourselves weak in their heresy. Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he." If you think you are always a sinner, you will be, even if Jesus has taken away all desire to sin, you still have free will to sin, believing Jesus will forgive your "past, present and future" sins, which is not in the Bible. 2 Peter 1:9 only says past sins. And for good reason. The gospel is the power of God, not the permission of God to sin because they cling to the false doctrine of the penalty for sin has already been paid.

I write about this sin concept starting from page 146. Take a look...

Stephen full of Faith and Power (2000), p. 146 https://walking-by-the-spirit.com