Inclusion of LGBT Christians

[Obadiah]

Give sin an inch and it will take a mile.

 

[Frank Russell]

The reason it's not hypocritical is because two totally different topics. Divorce has nothing to do with homosexuality. That's like saying God condones divorce so homicide should be included also. I mean look at all the poor people convicted of homicide that are locked up in prison some sitting on death row.

Before you can determine what is right and wrong, you have to know that there really is right and wrong. In the case of divorce and homosexuality they're both wrong. Divorce in the family causes an extreme amount of damage, especially to the children.

God is just, loving, patient, merciful, generous—all that is good comes from Him and is a reflection of His character. Now God’s perfectly good nature is expressed toward us in the form of moral commandments, which constitute our moral duties. We really are morally obligated to do certain things and not to do others. Morality isn’t just in your mind. It’s real.

To condone sexual immorality as a Christian is the real form of hypocrisy. What does the Bible say about it?

In Leviticus 18.22 it says that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man as with a woman. In Lev. 20.13 the death penalty is prescribed in Israel for such an act, along with adultery, incest, and bestiality.

Then there is the story in Genesis 19 of the attempted gang rape of Lot’s visitors by the men of Sodom, from which our word sodomy derives. God destroyed the city of Sodom because of their wickedness.

Seems like homosexual behavior is in God’s sight a serious sin. Also in Romans 1.24-28. Here Paul talks about how people have turned away from the Creator God and begun to worship instead false gods of their own making. He says,

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. Romans 1.24-28

In Matthew 5:28 Jesus makes a connection that implies all lust is the same.

 

[Frank Russell]

Divorce is final. Is homosexuality final?



Is love pure? Notice the appeal to a pure heart!

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Notice also how love doesn't rejoice in sin.

1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

You know, you make a good point. Too bad churches rejoice in injustice and vote in leaders that oppress the poor.

 

[Frank Russell]

Divorce is final. Is homosexuality final?

The point is about whether Divorcees should re-marry or be celibate, how is that final?

 

[praise_yeshua]

The point is about whether Divorcees should re-marry or be celibate, how is that final?

So homosexuals should have endless partners?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You know, you make a good point. Too bad churches rejoice in injustice and vote in leaders that oppress the poor.

Jesus said clearly that the poor you have with you always. Jesus said that the poor have the kingdom of God preached to them. That the poor are rich in faith.

Success in this life often leads to man forgetting God and refusing to acknowledge God's benevolence.

 

[Ahar]

In Matthew 5:28 Jesus makes a connection that implies all lust is the same.

Exactly and in this case they're both morally wrong

 

[Frank Russell]

So homosexuals should have endless partners?

I don't think you understand the dynamics at play, correct me if you do.

When people have sex, their inner beings are connected in a way that is inseparable.

This interconnection of inner beings is used in occult practices to exploit people to generate energy.

If someone is connected to too many people this way, it becomes immeasurably harmful to them and those around them.

Thus if I was asked if homosexuals should just be endlessly promiscuous, or committed to one partner, I'd have to say the more spiritually healthy option is to be committed to one partner.

As Jesus said regarding celibacy, "not everyone can accept this word" so it shouldn't be considered as a default expectation.

 

[Frank Russell]

Jesus said clearly that the poor you have with you always. Jesus said that the poor have the kingdom of God preached to them. That the poor are rich in faith.

Success in this life often leads to man forgetting God and refusing to acknowledge God's benevolence.

The church tends to emphasize the sermon on the mount out of their theologies ... and replaces it's role with stuff from the letters .. so the church isn't exactly blameless here.

 

[Frank Russell]

Exactly and in this case they're both morally wrong

In the 1800s the church went into decline because of an emphasis on morals. This resulted in a decline in spiritual well being.

Managing the spirit with intellectual indicators is the same as beginning in the spirit and finishing in the flesh. As Paul warned the Galatians, we should not do this.

 

[Wilber]

In the 1800s the church went into decline because of an emphasis on morals. This resulted in a decline in spiritual well being.

Managing the spirit with intellectual indicators is the same as beginning in the spirit and finishing in the flesh. As Paul warned the Galatians, we should not do this.

I don't believe that God wants us to put our heads in the sand and pretend that all is grand when it comes to our moral behavior.
First Peter stresses the importance of righteous moral behavior since “the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous”

For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God), and His ears are attentive to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who practice evil [to oppose them, to frustrate, and defeat them].

The absolute worst thing about the homosexual agenda is the plans they have for our children. Allowing them to have gender modifying surgeries. Plus all the brainwashing.

God’s anger burns hottest against those who harm children because children are the most helpless and impressionable members of society. They are most easily led astray into a spiritual wilderness where they can be separated from God the Father for eternity.

Christ said, "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and drowned in the depth of the sea” Matthew 18:6

If children are persuaded to form an incorrect view of the Lord, through false teaching or evil homosexual behavior, His punishment will be severe.

There's no getting around it the homosexual agenda is a destructive gender ideology. What good is a watered down church that won't stand up for what's right and stand against for what's wrong.

Don't fall for the lies of the enemy. “There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” - Pro 14:12

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't think you understand the dynamics at play, correct me if you do.

When people have sex, their inner beings are connected in a way that is inseparable.

I do. Understand. Sex isn't the joining of inner beings. It is often nothing more than muscle spasms.

Lust is sin. When lust is finished it brings forth death.

This interconnection of inner beings is used in occult practices to exploit people to generate energy.

If someone is connected to too many people this way, it becomes immeasurably harmful to them and those around them.

I disagree and have no idea how you actually determine this is true.

Thus if I was asked if homosexuals should just be endlessly promiscuous, or committed to one partner, I'd have to say the more spiritually healthy option is to be committed to one partner.

Commitment to a "partner" has nothing to do with it. In fact, there are plenty of people that are committed to one another that have ZERO intimacy and "connection". This is why God divorced Israel even though God was committed to Israel.

As Jesus said regarding celibacy, "not everyone can accept this word" so it shouldn't be considered as a default expectation.

Sure. Marriage is better than abandonment. However, there is more to this conversation. I don't believe you're actually consider such. There is no meaning relationship to find in just "muscle spasms".

Rape is real. There is no connection of "inner beings" related to rape.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The church tends to emphasize the sermon on the mount out of their theologies ... and replaces it's role with stuff from the letters .. so the church isn't exactly blameless here.

What I said is consistent throughout all the written records.

 

[Wilber]

The church tends to emphasize the sermon on the mount out of their theologies ... and replaces it's role with stuff from the letters .. so the church isn't exactly blameless here.

I love it...Blame the messenger. Instead of "the devil made me do it" now "it's the church made me do it".

 

[Frank Russell]

I don't believe that God wants us to put our heads in the sand and pretend that all is grand when it comes to our moral behavior.
First Peter stresses the importance of righteous moral behavior since “the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous”

For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God), and His ears are attentive to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who practice evil [to oppose them, to frustrate, and defeat them].

The absolute worst thing about the homosexual agenda is the plans they have for our children. Allowing them to have gender modifying surgeries. Plus all the brainwashing.

God’s anger burns hottest against those who harm children because children are the most helpless and impressionable members of society. They are most easily led astray into a spiritual wilderness where they can be separated from God the Father for eternity.

Christ said, "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and drowned in the depth of the sea” Matthew 18:6

If children are persuaded to form an incorrect view of the Lord, through false teaching or evil homosexual behavior, His punishment will be severe.

There's no getting around it the homosexual agenda is a destructive gender ideology. What good is a watered down church that won't stand up for what's right and stand against for what's wrong.

Don't fall for the lies of the enemy. “There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” - Pro 14:12

I do. Understand. Sex isn't the joining of inner beings. It is often nothing more than muscle spasms.

Lust is sin. When lust is finished it brings forth death.




I disagree and have no idea how you actually determine this is true.



Commitment to a "partner" has nothing to do with it. In fact, there are plenty of people that are committed to one another that have ZERO intimacy and "connection". This is why God divorced Israel even though God was committed to Israel.



Sure. Marriage is better than abandonment. However, there is more to this conversation. I don't believe you're actually consider such. There is no meaning relationship to find in just "muscle spasms".

Rape is real. There is no connection of "inner beings" related to rape.

So it's the rape angle then.

And sex is just physical contact with no spiritual implications.

Since our understandings of the matter are profoundly different, the odds of any fruitful discussion is pretty low.

Thanks for the discussion none the less.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So it's the rape angle then.

Not exclusively but it must be part of the conversation if you're going to make an intellectual argument.

And sex is just physical contact with no spiritual implications.

Like said, not always. Sex can be entirely meaningless. Nothing more than lust and muscle spasms.

Since our understandings of the matter are profoundly different, the odds of any fruitful discussion is pretty low.

Thanks for the discussion none the less.

I've had this discussion for many years. I can discuss this with you logically if you like without any sense of spirituality or we can have the discussion relative to spiritually. Your choice. Both are a losing argument from your perspective.

There is no intimacy that exists between male to male.... or ..... female to female relationships. Nothing more than muscle spasms. Spiritual unity only exists within pure hearts. Hearts in "tune" with Divinity. There are deeply emotional connections made in the "spirit" of heart but it must be pure.

 

[Frank Russell]

Not exclusively but it must be part of the conversation if you're going to make an intellectual argument.



Like said, not always. Sex can be entirely meaningless. Nothing more than lust and muscle spasms.



I've had this discussion for many years. I can discuss this with you logically if you like without any sense of spirituality or we can have the discussion relative to spiritually. Your choice. Both are a losing argument from your perspective.

There is no intimacy that exists between male to male.... or ..... female to female relationships. Nothing more than muscle spasms. Spiritual unity only exists within pure hearts. Hearts in "tune" with Divinity. There are deeply emotional connections made in the "spirit" of heart but it must be pure.

I don't think you could understand the abuse I've encountered since being alive, your view is too shallow.

 

[Persevering]

Not exclusively but it must be part of the conversation if you're going to make an intellectual argument.



Like said, not always. Sex can be entirely meaningless. Nothing more than lust and muscle spasms.



I've had this discussion for many years. I can discuss this with you logically if you like without any sense of spirituality or we can have the discussion relative to spiritually. Your choice. Both are a losing argument from your perspective.

There is no intimacy that exists between male to male.... or ..... female to female relationships. Nothing more than muscle spasms. Spiritual unity only exists within pure hearts. Hearts in "tune" with Divinity. There are deeply emotional connections made in the "spirit" of heart but it must be pure.

Just my personal opinion but I think sexual relationships between the same gender are disgusting. I really think there has to be something wrong with your mind to engagement in that sort of activity. And then trying to get the rest of the world to approve And join in with your mental illness is just asking a little too much. There's only two genders male and female, end of story. God didn't create Adam and Steve.

For the gay community... do whatever you want to do behind closed doors but give the rest of us a break. I mean celebrating gay pride for a whole month is kind of going overboard when you stop and consider we here in the United States celebrate our Independence Day on one day of the year, the 4th of July.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't think you could understand the abuse I've encountered since being alive, your view is too shallow.

We've all been abused by something. Some more than others. I'm not discounting your situation. I want to be considerate.

My view is fine. People imagine God's approval in their circumstances. We all seek such to some degree or another. I've been rejected almost my entire adult life because of my beliefs. We share more in common than you might think.

Imagining Spiritually where there is none is nothing more than wishful thinking. I know, I've "wished" myself in some bad choices in my life. Such is common to man.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Just my personal opinion but I think sexual relationships between the same gender are disgusting. I really think there has to be something wrong with your mind to engagement in that sort of activity. And then trying to get the rest of the world to approve And join in with your mental illness is just asking a little too much. There's only two genders male and female, end of story. God didn't create Adam and Steve.

For the gay community... do whatever you want to do behind closed doors but give the rest of us a break. I mean celebrating gay pride for a whole month is kind of going overboard when you stop and consider we here in the United States celebrate our Independence Day on one day of the year, the 4th of July.

Subservient roles in the gay community are very real. However, they are not alone. Most all men seek power over another. Some do it with sex and others do it in the "name of God". Sad but true.

It is the same with Islam and the Caste system that rules India culture.... even domestically. There are so many ways that men seek to enslave others. The difference is often relative to purity.